Coaching Graveyard theory.....

[bringmagicback]

I remember Ed Cunningham saying the same thing we he said Turner Gill should take the KU job instead of ISU. The airport, cold weather, lack of DI recruits in Iowa are real, and are factors. Bring in Nick Saban, or any successful coach here and they would win. Saying it can't be done is something Johnny would give a big "FU coach!".
Finding the guy is a huge challenge, but the right guy can be successful here.

#1 you will never get that coach. #2 You will never keep that coach. #3 God himself cant recruit football players to Ames, IA. Luckily I have 100 years of history backing up my point.

One day when I was about 15, I realized I would never play in the NBA. I started focusing on other things. One day when I was about 28, I realized that ISU will never ever ever compete for a big12 championship in it's current form and I started focusing on other things (tailgating mostly) Just aint happening kids.

 

[AlaCyclone]

If you can win @ Iowa, you can win @ Iowa State. If you can win @ Kansas State, you can win @ Iowa State. BOTH Hayden Fry AND Bill Snyder took over, much, much worse situation than Iowa State has ever faced, and I was in school during the Walden years! lol. ISU just needs a Hayden Fry or a Bill Snyder type HC who maximizes what he would have in Ames, Iowa AND STAYS around for awhile! Johnny Majors and Earle Bruce were the right type of guys, but they left. Currently, PR is the wrong guy, but he is staying around for awhile. lol. ISU needs a Johnny or Earle who will STAY.

 

[Gunnerclone]

For real? Try LA on a business trip and you will never want to drive again.

True story I was trippin' ballz on the 5 in between SD and LA somewhere, traffic was crazy, saw a Lambo run in to the back of a car when everyone had to slam on the brakes, do a perfect flip in the air and land on top of like other cars. Still not sure if it really happened or not.

 

[CTTB78]

#1 you will never get that coach. #2 You will never keep that coach. #3 God himself cant recruit football players to Ames, IA. Luckily I have 100 years of history backing up my point.

......

I don't have to go back 100 years. I just go back to when Iowa State hired Johnny Orr. "Should never have got him", "he was never going to stay", and "he could never get blue chip players to Ames, Iowa". Thank God, Johnny thought otherwise.
Admittedly football is tougher, but to say it can never be done is not historically accurate, at least not in the last 100.

 

[aeroclone]

You cant be successful here. You can win 8-9 games every now and then but you cant get the kids to come here when they can go to warm weather non middle of nowhere schools. CPR said it himself, its near impossible to get kids to even visit based on the location of the airport and the costs associated with flying. Just give it up and accept it, I did long ago and now I still enjoy watching them play and hoping for an upset every 3-4 years.

I heard this on the broadcast Saturday night, and the airport thing makes absolutely no sense to me. It takes 45 minutes to drive from the DSM airport to JTS. Is that really that much of an obstacle? How many schools have a commercial airport that much closer?

EIU to Eastern Iowa Airport is 26 minutes
Minny to MSP is 20 minutes
KU to KCI is 53 minutes
KSU to KCI is 2 hours (though Manhattan does have a small airport with 5 commercial flights daily)
WVU to Pittsburgh Int is 1 hour 27 minutes
OSU to Tulsa Intl is 1 hour and 14 minutes

When it comes to flying a recruit in to campus, we shouldn't be at much of a disadvantage here at all. Now maybe this isn't as much of an issue for a Texas school where a lot of their recruits are in state and they just drive, but for a lot of other schools around us they are also dealing with some distance to the nearest airport, as well as the costs associated with flying in to smaller airports. This talking point just reeks of spin.

 

[jsb]

I don't have to go back 100 years. I just go back to when Iowa State hired Johnny Orr. "Should never have got him", "he was never going to stay", and "he could never get blue chip players to Ames, Iowa". Thank God, Johnny thought otherwise.
Admittedly football is tougher, but to say it can never be done is not historically accurate, at least not in the last 100.

its crazy to compare Johnny Orr to anything now.

Name me a coach as underpaid as Johnny was. You can't find it.

 

[jbhtexas]

So many of the reasons you list make Ames attractive for a 40 year old family man with young kids.

But for recruits? If only they were concerned about the excellent school system, raising family etc. Traffic non existent? That probably means the town is dead. Low crime rate? That probably means it's tighty whitey midwest town.

And if a place isn't attractive for recruits, it isn't attractive for coaches.

As for the football related points you make, I do agree.

Somehow, it's been possible for coaches to recruit sufficient players to places like Fargo and Cedar Falls over the past few years to man-handle ISU.

Toledo, Ohio seems to be able to draw sufficient players to to beat Arkansas and ISU. What the hec is going on there that's so attractive?

And really, for that matter, what kind of fantastic draw does Iowa City have for recruits over Ames? Are the location/weather/scenery/amenities in IC really that much different/better than Ames? From the sounds of it, ISU is getting better fan support lately. They seem to recruit well enough over there to get to a bowl most years, so it really doesn't seem like geography should preclude sufficient recruiting for ISU to get a bowl, or dissuade a coach from coming to ISU that can accomplish more than 2 or 3 wins per season.

 

[bringmagicback]

I don't have to go back 100 years. I just go back to when Iowa State hired Johnny Orr. "Should never have got him", "he was never going to stay", and "he could never get blue chip players to Ames, Iowa". Thank God, Johnny thought otherwise.
Admittedly football is tougher, but to say it can never be done is not historically accurate, at least not in the last 100.

Neat. I too like to compare things that are not at all alike. Like different sports and things that happened 30 years ago.

 

[peachy]

You cant be successful here. You can win 8-9 games every now and then but you cant get the kids to come here when they can go to warm weather non middle of nowhere schools. CPR said it himself, its near impossible to get kids to even visit based on the location of the airport and the costs associated with flying. Just give it up and accept it, I did long ago and now I still enjoy watching them play and hoping for an upset every 3-4 years.

It is mindsets like this that are one of the problems we have here at ISU. The overwhelming urge to just "give up and accept it." Such a defeatist attitude, it is sad.

One of two things will happen here. We will find a coach who will lead us to a successful football program. That may be the next coach, it may be 5 coaches from now. Someone will have success here, and make us a formidable foe. They may not have year-after-year-after-year 9 win seasons, but we will be competitive almost every year. Don't believe me? Read about KSU and the program before Snyder got there. They were the worst college football program in history, until they took a chance with him.

Don't believe that the first option will ever happen? Then the other option will probably eventually happen. We will drop from the P5 status, and join some other conference, like the MVC, or the AAC. Football is the sport that drives all other sports in college athletics, and if you are not going to make an effort to be a competitive team, you will be shoved off to another conference, especially if there are shifts in the conferences.

If your mindset is to "give up and accept it", get ready for the American Athletic Conference. We can still be competitive in basketball, and still have a football program. As for myself, I refuse to "give up and accept it". As other posters have noted, this is a very good place to coach, although there are some hurdles. The next coach will have to work hard, and surround himself with a great coaching staff.

I think that is very possible, to find a successful football coach. The problem is that there are fans who share this mindset "to accept it". They think we can't do better than a 2-10 season, lose to FCS schools, and not win a single conference game. They are afraid "we will do worse". They tell us "Paul is a great guy" and the "culture has changed". I tell these fools look at our last 28 games. We have lost 22 of them, in almost every way imaginable. Missed kicks, penalties, no depth, schedule, assistants, blah blah blah. After how many losses does the coach become accountable? Is 28 games not enough of a sample size?

It seems our AD has the same philosophy as some of these fans. "Well, he is a good guy!" "We could probably not find anyone better." "This is a tough place to win." Although JP may share this idea, as well as some fans, I refuse to buy into it, or the "coaching graveyard" crap.

 

[Gunnerclone]

Somehow, it's been possible for coaches to recruit sufficient players to places like Fargo and Cedar Falls over the past few years to man-handle ISU. Toledo, Ohio seems to be able to draw sufficient players to to beat Arkansas and ISU.

And really, for that matter, what kind of fantastic draw does Iowa City have for recruits over Ames? Are the location/weather/scenery/amenities in IC really that much different/better than Ames? From the sounds of it, ISU is getting better fan support lately. They seem to recruit well enough over there to get to a bowl most years, so it really doesn't seem like geography should preclude sufficient recruiting for ISU to get a bowl, or dissuade ISU from getting a coach that can accomplish more than 2 or 3 wins per season.

Our HC refuses to have a twitter account. When the HC isn't even willing to take that step (whether he wants to or not) for the potential good of the program how hard do you think he's really going out there?

 

[CTTB78]

Neat. I too like to compare things that are not at all alike. Like different sports and things that happened 30 years ago.

At least we've chopped off 70 years......

 

[CTTB78]

its crazy to compare Johnny Orr to anything now.

Name me a coach as underpaid as Johnny was. You can't find it.

Not that crazy. Brad Stevens made a nice jump after his national championship year as well.

 

[bringmagicback]

It is mindsets like this that are one of the problems we have here at ISU. The overwhelming urge to just "give up and accept it." Such a defeatist attitude, it is sad.

One of two things will happen here. We will find a coach who will lead us to a successful football program. That may be the next coach, it may be 5 coaches from now. Someone will have success here, and make us a formidable foe. They may not have year-after-year-after-year 9 win seasons, but we will be competitive almost every year. Don't believe me? Read about KSU and the program before Snyder got there. They were the worst college football program in history, until they took a chance with him.

Don't believe that the first option will ever happen? Then the other option will probably eventually happen. We will drop from the P5 status, and join some other conference, like the MVC, or the AAC. Football is the sport that drives all other sports in college athletics, and if you are not going to make an effort to be a competitive team, you will be shoved off to another conference, especially if there are shifts in the conferences.

If your mindset is to "give up and accept it", get ready for the American Athletic Conference. We can still be competitive in basketball, and still have a football program. As for myself, I refuse to "give up and accept it". As other posters have noted, this is a very good place to coach, although there are some hurdles. The next coach will have to work hard, and surround himself with a great coaching staff.

I think that is very possible, to find a successful football coach. The problem is that there are fans who share this mindset "to accept it". They think we can't do better than a 2-10 season, lose to FCS schools, and not win a single conference game. They are afraid "we will do worse". They tell us "Paul is a great guy" and the "culture has changed". I tell these fools look at our last 28 games. We have lost 22 of them, in almost every way imaginable. Missed kicks, penalties, no depth, schedule, assistants, blah blah blah. After how many losses does the coach become accountable? Is 28 games not enough of a sample size?

It seems our AD has the same philosophy as some of these fans. "Well, he is a good guy!" "We could probably not find anyone better." "This is a tough place to win." Although JP may share this idea, as well as some fans, I refuse to buy into it, or the "coaching graveyard" crap.

Crap, I get it now. My mindset of accepting that we will never win a big 12 championship is affecting the team and will eventually cost us our spot in the big 12! Well by god Ive changed. Orange bowl here we come! I think some of you over estimate your power of "being a fan"

 

[IAStubborn]

McCarney is coaching Scott Bakula and Kathy Ireland, Rhoads is about to be coaching no one. The list is growing.

I was gonna include McCarney and yeah Rhoads is likely but how many careers have died at Pitt, Auburn, Alabama, Nebraska or any school. I think we are a tough place to win a National Title at or even a Big 12 title but there isn't a lot of evidence of ISU being a coaching graveyard.

 

[jsb]

Not that crazy. Brad Stevens made a nice jump after his national championship year as well.

I don't even get this.

Johnny came here for 2 reasons. One being that he was under appreciated at Michigan. The main one was that he was literally paid almost nothing.

Schools dont do that any more. Any coach is paid a good amount of money. It's not like we can offer the Michigan state football coach $20 million per year and he'd take it.

 

[clone136]

The whole coaching graveyard is the argument I used why I think we keep CPR. I understand the frustration and calling for his head, but I am too the point where I would rather ride this thing out and win again with someone who generally cares about ISU and the community then roll the dice with someone who may or may not win but is definitely leaving at the first shot he has.


Now go ahead and tell me I am crazy....

 

[DSM4Cy]

Crap, I get it now. My mindset of accepting that we will never win a big 12 championship is affecting the team and will eventually cost us our spot in the big 12! Well by god Ive changed. Orange bowl here we come! I think some of you over estimate your power of "being a fan"

The thing with JP is that he has proven himself to be movable by fans. So, yes, I think some people's worry about the "groupthink" of ISU athletics being that we will never get there might get to Pollard.

Also, our support of a losing team with record ticket sales, while an amazing endorsement of what it is to be a Cyclone, doesn't give Pollard any reason to fire Rhoads. If people are willing to pay and support a terrible product on the field, why should Pollard make a change? Money talks and when fans flee, it will affect Pollard's actions.

I would be the biggest Rhoads supporter if I felt like things were moving in a positive direction and we would be fighting for bowl eligibility. We aren't right now for the 3rd year in a row and are staring a 3rd consecutive terrible season in the face. Since JP won't fire him midseason, it's up to CPR to prove me wrong the rest of the year and I hope he does (although the chances are maybe 1%). If not, he had better be gone.

 

[DSM4Cy]

The whole coaching graveyard is the argument I used why I think we keep CPR. I understand the frustration and calling for his head, but I am too the point where I would rather ride this thing out and win again with someone who generally cares about ISU and the community then roll the dice with someone who may or may not win but is definitely leaving at the first shot he has.


Now go ahead and tell me I am crazy....

You're not crazy - but what's to say that CPR doesn't leave if we start winning again? When he sees how close he was to getting fired once, why would he leave that option on the table again?

I hate the argument that you should hire someone who is going to be there forever, regardless of how good they will be. You hire the best person for the job, you support them as best you can, and you hope they decide it's a good place to be. If it doesn't work for them, you do the same thing again and again. Maybe you get a Bill Snyder, maybe you don't.

I guarantee you there are good coaches out there who want to be "legends" more than just coach at a blueblood and be "another coach". Maybe not a lot, but they are out there. I guarantee there are good coaches out there who would like Ames and being a part of ISU. We just need to find them. If they don't work, keep trying until you find one that fits. The last thing we can afford to do is give up or accept mediocrity. That will destroy us in the next round of realignment.

 

[bringmagicback]

Fire Paul don't fire Paul, doesn't matter. It doesn't matter who the coach is you dumb dumbs

 

[CycloneVet]

Actually, we do know Iowa State inquired about Turner Gill and he had no interest.

Thank ****** he had no interest