Plane on a Treadmill
- Thread starter Warder60
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Keep reading, the unanswered question is if the plane is allowed to move forward on a long thread mill. Because we all agree that it can easily move forward if allowed in the test.
Then someone needs to further define the scenario. If the plane is allowed to move forward, why even have the treadmill as part the "puzzle". If the plane can move relative to the air, it will take off. If the scenario is how I understand it, it won't move relative to the air and won't take off.
Right... The question is... will it move forward...
The funny thing is this is being tackled at YouTube, but with varying results:
No:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDliz-YinyY]YouTube - Plane on a Treadmill[/ame]
Yes:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4owlyCOzDiE]YouTube - Plane vs. Treadmill Solved II[/ame]
I tend to believe that it WILL fly.
The funny thing is this is being tackled at YouTube, but with varying results:
No:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDliz-YinyY]YouTube - Plane on a Treadmill[/ame]
Yes:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4owlyCOzDiE]YouTube - Plane vs. Treadmill Solved II[/ame]
I tend to believe that it WILL fly.
Re: CyBookie - Plane on a Treadmill
Can you please create the event with 100/1 odds the plane will take-off and 1/100 that the plane stays stationary? Since you don't believe in physics, these odds seem fair.
Can you please create the event with 100/1 odds the plane will take-off and 1/100 that the plane stays stationary? Since you don't believe in physics, these odds seem fair.
As people have noted, there is definitely a difference between wheel speed and air speed.
As I lied awake all night tossing and turning in a cold sweat over this problem I came to the conclusion that there is just no way that they are going to be able to build a large treadmill such that it can match the plane speed (keep the plane in the same position relative to the landscape). Additionally, if they could the wheels on the plane would probably explode.
As I lied awake all night tossing and turning in a cold sweat over this problem I came to the conclusion that there is just no way that they are going to be able to build a large treadmill such that it can match the plane speed (keep the plane in the same position relative to the landscape). Additionally, if they could the wheels on the plane would probably explode.
Re: CyBookie - Plane on a Treadmill
Would this event have the assumption that the plane doesn't move relative to the ground or not? If the assumptions are properly clarified then everyone knows the answer already.
The answer is, that there is nothing that will prevent the plane FROM moving forward, other than the normal frictions it would encounter during a normal takeoff, without the treadmill. (well the friction in the wheels, bearings, etc will be slightly higher due to higher speeds, heat etc.... but not enough to make any real difference)
Thrust is going to move the plane and the threadmill moving in the opposite direction does nothing other than help determine wheel speed, which will be the sum of the plane's speed and that of the treadmill.
Re: CyBookie - Plane on a Treadmill
WHAT, I ask, is going to prevent the plane from moving forward?
WHAT, I ask, is going to prevent the plane from moving forward?
Correct. Agreed. If the plane wants to exceed the speed of the treadmill, it can without any real difference in how it normally takes off. However, as shown in the video above, if the plane matches the speed of the treadmill, it won't be moving relative to the air and it won't take off.
Exceeding the speed of the treadmill is no problem for the engines to overcome because you only have the friction of the wheels. The plane can take-off if it wants to.
But that isn't how I understood the puzzle in the first place.
I think most of the argument involved here is understanding of the problem. Not the problem itself.
Re: CyBookie - Plane on a Treadmill
If the threadmill is only 10 feet long and the plane has to stay on it, the plane will not take off.
If the threadmill is 5,000 feet long and the plane has to stay on it, the plane can get enough speed to take off.
If the threadmill is only 10 feet long and the plane has to stay on it, the plane will not take off.
If the threadmill is 5,000 feet long and the plane has to stay on it, the plane can get enough speed to take off.
After careful consideration, I don't think it does ........ "violate the premise of the puzzle."
The original question related the "plane's speed" to that of the treadmill. Nothing was ever supposed about the speed of the plane in relation to the air or other surroundings. If the plane is moving at 100 mph and the treadmill is moving at 100mph in the opposite direction, the plane is certainly moving 100mph in the forward direction and the tires would be spnning at 200mph.
This picture of a big plane powering up on a treadmill that may or may not allow it to fly is similar to the Giant Bullet capsule that was shot out of a cannon in Jules Verne's From the Earth to the Moon and Around It. This has sci fi written all over it. Awesome.
Re: CyBookie - Plane on a Treadmill
Only the person controlling the plane. Otherwise, the plane will move forward and it will easily, as if the treadmill wasn't even there.
Only the person controlling the plane. Otherwise, the plane will move forward and it will easily, as if the treadmill wasn't even there.
No, the speed of the plane can match the speed of the treadmill and still take off..... it's the speed of the wheels that would need to exceed the speed of the treadmill.
The one youtube video clearly showed the plane moving forward when the treadmill was exceeding that of the forward motion of the plane.
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