How to Build ISU Football
- Thread starter ShopTalk
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Exactly my point! We hear about guys that have stepped up in practice or on the scout team all season long. If they are doing so well then why aren't they playing?? If they aren't better than the starters then don't even mention their play in practice/scout team, it only undermines the guys that are starting
Doesn't Boise recruit partial qualifiers? I'm too lazy to research it but I think so. That makes a HUGE difference. They can get kids who are great athletes but can't get in to top-notch programs.
Put them in the B12, where they can't accept partial qualifiers, and their program wouldn't be so great.
I agree 100% but we need kids that will work their @$$ off and put it all out on the field and I think Midwest kids do that the best.
Starting this year they cannot accept any more but their roster still has quite a few right now. We'll see how it affects them in the coming years.
Redshirting Players is Not the Issue
True Freshman redshirt because they are not ready to play. There is a huge difference between what it takes to compete at the HS and BCS college level- very few kids have the ability to step in and play as true freshman. Look at programs like Texas, LSU, Oklahoma, etc- they redshirt most true freshman and they are recruiting 4 & 5 star kids. ISU is recruiting 3 star athletes- they need a year to develop physically.
The DE Irving is a prime example. Physically he is not ready to play in the Big 12, but was needed because of injuries. He would have been a much better playing in 2015 than 2011.
True Freshman redshirt because they are not ready to play. There is a huge difference between what it takes to compete at the HS and BCS college level- very few kids have the ability to step in and play as true freshman. Look at programs like Texas, LSU, Oklahoma, etc- they redshirt most true freshman and they are recruiting 4 & 5 star kids. ISU is recruiting 3 star athletes- they need a year to develop physically.
The DE Irving is a prime example. Physically he is not ready to play in the Big 12, but was needed because of injuries. He would have been a much better playing in 2015 than 2011.
Re: Redshirting Players is Not the Issue
And that is exactly why next year you will see a huge improvement in his game directly due to game experience. I know we aren't going to get guys that are physical specimens but neither are most teams in the nation but the guys are still starting and gaining experience.
Plus Texas, LSU, OU they all play a lot of true freshmen, as doesn everyone in the SEC. Stars don't mean anything in the long run as far as recruiting goes. Look at Ferentz. He doesn't get highly rated recruits but he develops players in their 4 years there. There are a ton of 4 and 5 star recruits who never amount to anything.
And that is exactly why next year you will see a huge improvement in his game directly due to game experience. I know we aren't going to get guys that are physical specimens but neither are most teams in the nation but the guys are still starting and gaining experience.
Plus Texas, LSU, OU they all play a lot of true freshmen, as doesn everyone in the SEC. Stars don't mean anything in the long run as far as recruiting goes. Look at Ferentz. He doesn't get highly rated recruits but he develops players in their 4 years there. There are a ton of 4 and 5 star recruits who never amount to anything.
CyFan61 Nailed It
ISU needs to get stronger along both the DL & OL. I think we are headed in the right direction, but it hurts that we are in year 3 of Paul Rhoads tenure.
I don't think the staff focused enough on DL recruiting in years 1 & 2. We need to be stout in the middle to stop the run - our DL still looks like they are on skates, getting pushed around by opposing OL's. The best pass defense is a pass rush- and we can rely on twists and blitz's to get to the QB.
IMO a mediocre OL creates a mediocre DL and vis versa. Conversely a great OL or great DL will cause the opposite side of the ball to get better because they practice against each other.
On offense, I don't have a problem with the spread offense - just not 100% of the time. Mix it up! Put the QB under center sometimes and run the I formation. Too many of our pass plays are designed for the receiver to catch the ball at or behind the line of scrimmage. Our offense is either the 30 yard pass or the 0 yard pass with hope of getting YAC. Were is the 10-15 yard pass play?
ISU needs to get stronger along both the DL & OL. I think we are headed in the right direction, but it hurts that we are in year 3 of Paul Rhoads tenure.
I don't think the staff focused enough on DL recruiting in years 1 & 2. We need to be stout in the middle to stop the run - our DL still looks like they are on skates, getting pushed around by opposing OL's. The best pass defense is a pass rush- and we can rely on twists and blitz's to get to the QB.
IMO a mediocre OL creates a mediocre DL and vis versa. Conversely a great OL or great DL will cause the opposite side of the ball to get better because they practice against each other.
On offense, I don't have a problem with the spread offense - just not 100% of the time. Mix it up! Put the QB under center sometimes and run the I formation. Too many of our pass plays are designed for the receiver to catch the ball at or behind the line of scrimmage. Our offense is either the 30 yard pass or the 0 yard pass with hope of getting YAC. Were is the 10-15 yard pass play?
You don't have to be a medical examiner to spot a dead body. We have things going wrong that ANYONE can see and some of us want to talk about that to understand it better.
After the performance of the past three games, "trust the coaches" doesn't fly and only shuts down the perspectives of others. I think what we have seen undermines the feelings of even the most trusting and loyal among us.
I don't think anyone has claimed to have all the answers. All your post does it try to shut down that conversation. Try contributing something meaningful instead.
Re: CyFan61 Nailed It
Exactly. Gotta make the defense work make them guess. Need to utilize the short 3-5 yard slant routes and abandon the WR screen and deep balls.
Exactly. Gotta make the defense work make them guess. Need to utilize the short 3-5 yard slant routes and abandon the WR screen and deep balls.
Ferentz
You are wrong on Iowa. This year Iowa is playing a lot of true freshman, but how many start or play big minutes? This year's Iowa team is the anomoly. Most years Ferentz redshirts his true freshman and he develop kids so they can be quality starters in years 3, 4 & 5, not 2, 3 & 4.
You are also wrong on TX, LSU, OU & the SEC relying on true freshman to play significant minutes. Most kids redshirt. There is also a reason HS kids are rated 5 stars- they are gifted athletically in HS and are more ready to play immediately than a 3 star kid. Yet they don't,l even at schools like OU & TX because 4 & 5 start recruits with 3 or 4 years on campus are more physically & mentally better equipped to compete. There is a difference between ready to complete and ready to play just to gain experience.
You are wrong on Iowa. This year Iowa is playing a lot of true freshman, but how many start or play big minutes? This year's Iowa team is the anomoly. Most years Ferentz redshirts his true freshman and he develop kids so they can be quality starters in years 3, 4 & 5, not 2, 3 & 4.
You are also wrong on TX, LSU, OU & the SEC relying on true freshman to play significant minutes. Most kids redshirt. There is also a reason HS kids are rated 5 stars- they are gifted athletically in HS and are more ready to play immediately than a 3 star kid. Yet they don't,l even at schools like OU & TX because 4 & 5 start recruits with 3 or 4 years on campus are more physically & mentally better equipped to compete. There is a difference between ready to complete and ready to play just to gain experience.
Re: Ferentz
Never mentioned anything about Iowa starting freshmen. Said that they don't get "top" talent but develop guys that aren't rated as 4 or 5 stars, which start are meaningless anyway.
And yes in the whole of the SEC and now the BigXII team are not redshirting as much as they used to. They are playing lots of true freshmen and redshirt freshmen. Most reshirt freshmen are either oline or dline. I don't think that many are able to play every single snap but they are still gaining meaningful playing time/experience which leads the more success down the road. Look at Maggitt at tennessee. He is probably not ready to play but they need depth at linebacker and he has gotten the starting nod. Sure he makes mistakes but he gets better every game. Players can't get better in practice without having game experience to draw from
Never mentioned anything about Iowa starting freshmen. Said that they don't get "top" talent but develop guys that aren't rated as 4 or 5 stars, which start are meaningless anyway.
And yes in the whole of the SEC and now the BigXII team are not redshirting as much as they used to. They are playing lots of true freshmen and redshirt freshmen. Most reshirt freshmen are either oline or dline. I don't think that many are able to play every single snap but they are still gaining meaningful playing time/experience which leads the more success down the road. Look at Maggitt at tennessee. He is probably not ready to play but they need depth at linebacker and he has gotten the starting nod. Sure he makes mistakes but he gets better every game. Players can't get better in practice without having game experience to draw from
Re: Ferentz
Alrite, pretty much this whole post is wrong. First off players don't get better in practice huh?? Have you ever heard the saying "practice makes perfect"? And you say to play true freshman so they get playing experience and not to redshirt them. Well guess what, 98% of freshman arnt physically or mentally ready to play big time D-1 football. So you think a true freshman playing 5-10 snaps a game is better than redshirting them and letting them get an extra year where they can physically and mentally mature and watch the games and learn the playbook? So no, you do not just play a true freshman just to play him. Yeah if the kid is ready and good enough to see meaningful snaps in a game then let him play. Also the only reason brackins and miller arnt redshirting is because those units lack depth, if they actually had better depth the staff would love to redshirt those guys to give them an extra year to play.
And also on your earlier post, guys play on special teams because they arnt good enough to start! Look at matt morton.
Alrite, pretty much this whole post is wrong. First off players don't get better in practice huh?? Have you ever heard the saying "practice makes perfect"? And you say to play true freshman so they get playing experience and not to redshirt them. Well guess what, 98% of freshman arnt physically or mentally ready to play big time D-1 football. So you think a true freshman playing 5-10 snaps a game is better than redshirting them and letting them get an extra year where they can physically and mentally mature and watch the games and learn the playbook? So no, you do not just play a true freshman just to play him. Yeah if the kid is ready and good enough to see meaningful snaps in a game then let him play. Also the only reason brackins and miller arnt redshirting is because those units lack depth, if they actually had better depth the staff would love to redshirt those guys to give them an extra year to play.
And also on your earlier post, guys play on special teams because they arnt good enough to start! Look at matt morton.
Consistent coaching staff (see Iowa), consistent O and D schemes (see Iowa), recruit hard-working midwest kids who can develop in the weightroom and practice field for 2-3 years (see Iowa), and find a couple difference makers (see every team in the world)... Our successful teams have had a few DIFFERENCE makers whether it was Seneca or Jordan Carstens or whoever. Watch a few games on TV and you'll see very few teams outside the top 10-15 have rosters full of difference makers. Our successful teams have had Offensive difference makers and thats what we're really lacking. Not a single difference maker on offense other than MAYBE KO but he doesn't touch the ball.
No accurate passer. No deep threat. No quick slot receiver. Pretty good RB with White (love that guy!) but no difference makers anywhere!
Recipe - maintain the coaching staff to the best of your ability and upgrade where possible. Be consistent with your O and D schemes and recruit to those schemes. Hide these kids in the weightroom and filmroom and the classroom until they can contribute as 3rd and 4th year players. GET LUCKY ON A DIFFERENCE MAKER ON O!!!
Yeah but in this case we don't know the body is dead, just ailing. So it would be like someone who watches Gray's Anatomy telling a doctor how to diagnose and treat a disease.
I just think it is funny that a bunch of former high school players think they can "solve" the woes of ISU. Like CPR isn't smart enough to have previously considered all the wise proposals in this thread. It is his job, after all.
