New Big 12 Super Conference

[HFCS]

We have to expand our market reach. I love SMU, UH, Rice, and TCU on the schedule more than anyone here but they make zero sense for a league that already has UT, Tech, and BU.

If we are going for non-aqs

Instead of up and coming SMU or UH take up and coming SDSU or UCF. Boise is a great team but so was Marshall 10 years ago and look at them now.

Best move right now if we cant land ND is to get BYU in the fold and let our 10 wait for the BE's teams to come into the crosshairs.

At some point, the ACC and/or Big Ten will come looking, and they'll find Big East schools. The Big 12 will not be the only league getting poached.

People who think the Big East is safe and stable are in denial. Pitt, WV, Louisville, and Uconn will all be prime targets of the ACC, SEC and Big Ten this week when the SEC goes to 13. The SEC will likely take an ACC or Big East team to go along with A&M, just likely that 14th team has not been blabbing about it like A&M. Colorado wasn't blabbing on about joining the Pac 10, but they did quite quickly.

I'd still say the Big East is less likely to exist as a "major" football conference than the Big 12. 5 conferences is most likely right now. The only question is the mix of Big 12 and Big East schools making up that 5th league. There's even an outside chance the ACC gets poached by SEC and Big Ten and some ACC schools are in the same situation as us and the Big East.

4 leagues for a neat playoff just isn't going to work without lawsuits and leaving some BCS teams out. We'll still have 5 major leagues at least, and a fake one game playoff. There needs to be a committee just like basketball, 5 or 6 conference champs and 2 or 3 at large bids = best sporting event in history.

 

[ljhlax]

This post is a microcosm of what is going on right now that I don't get. Not sure if SDSU is San Diego State or South Dakota State, but either way you're on a board for a school in Iowa talking about absorbing schools from different coasts into your conference. It just doesn't make sense. It would be like Pac 12 talking about adding Notre Dame, or SEC adding BYU. Obviously the geography thing has (somewhat) thrown itself out the door, but that just seems unreasonable. I wish these talks would be put to rest. If we do add someone, I hope it's someone that makes sense geographically for the fans also, not just for TVs.

That is what I was thinking in creating this senario. I also never included Rice (or North Texas or UTEP). TCU has 10 years sustained Football success and Houston and SMU have rich tradition although most of it occurred over ten years ago.

SDSU, Hawaii, Fresno can join the Pac 16 SuperConference. UCF can join the ACC or SEC SuperConference. I really think the best for College Football would be 6 Super Conferences with 96 schools. Seems like a great number. It allows for schools like Temple rehash rivalries with the Big East. Gives the Boise States, TCU, UCFs, NIUs, So Miss' and even the Air Force and Navy the chance for major conference exposure as reward for sustaining a decent degree of success.

 

[mikem]

How people can still think that the Big 12 is a viable conference is absolutely baffling.

The ONLY way it remains afloat is if OU doesn't jump on their standing offer from whichever conference they want to go to, and Mizzu doesn't get an offer from the SEC.

KU is also a shady bastard in this. Tech is the kid brother that UT will have to look out for.

KState is a glorified juco, and unless they get back to the 90's and early 2000's in terms of success level, they will be out in the cold with us and Baylor.

Like since last Summer, we need UT. We need to hitch our wagon to them, and hope that they don't forget about us when they make their move. Hopefully, it is the alliance with ND, and we can end up in whatever conglomeration of a conference they create.

Otherwise, the $$$ that JP was counting on will be significantly less. Of course all of the people on here that are screaming about UT will then complain when we can finish all of the projects, and lose revenues.

 

[jdoggivjc]

You would have a very tough time convincing Texas to let in one of TCU, SMU, and Houston, much less all three. This scenario will never happen.

What also won't happen is Fresno St and such schools to the Pac 12. The Pac 12 isn't going toet a school like Fresno St in for three reasons - they do not expand the Pac 12 Conference footprint (California is already saturated with USC, UCLA, Cal, and Stanford), their academics are horrible (the Pac 12 cares about academic profile), and Fresno would be a monetary drain on the conference. If the Pac 12's interest in OSU, TT, and K-State (none of which are really Pac 12 level academic institutions) hinges upon riding on the cocktails of OU, Texas, and KU, respectively, Fresno has no chance of getting in, especially since it has no cocktails to grab onto.

What you don't seem to get is if this thing goes to superconferences not everyone is going to be happy with the result. 4, no more than 5, conferences will survive to become superconferences. At least one, likely two, of the Big 12, Big East, and ACC are going to be destroyed in the process. The vast majority of the MWC, WAC, and CUSA are not going to be picked up, as most of them have questionable academics, all will be money drains, and there are plenty of Big 12, Big East, and ACC schools to choose from.

Why do you think there's such panic within Cyclone Nation? Because if superconferences form and as a result the Big 12 dies, short of a mercy invite from the Big 10 ISU is screwed, because for the most part ISU offers nothing the Big 10 doesn't have or can't get elsewhere in terms of TVs and academics, we're not geographically desirable for most other conferences, and our best backup plan in the Big East is likely to get picked apart as well.

ISU's best chance at staying relevant is Texas and OU remaining solidly committed to the Big 12. Either case will prevent superconferences from forming, because most realistic scenarios require the destruction of the Big 12. The other thing that could do (if the Big 12 could ever grow an aggressive bone) is be one of the first to 16, ensuring stability.

But your idea that there are 6 superconferences where all the current existing BCS teams remain happy and several mid-major schools get promoted quite simply is a fairy tale that in reality has zero chance of happening.

 

[Rickybaby]

I know the OP's been getting a lot of flack here but actually I agree with him on the basic premise. I think what remains of the B12 should definitely expand if TAMU leaves. I don't agree on the schools he chose as part of the expansion though.

 

[isuforlife]

Iowa State is not in position to say anything about any team

 

[tazclone]

Here are my thoughts if A&M leaves.

Just go for it. Create the 16 Team Super Conference.

Texas, Texas Tech, Baylor, TCU, Houston, SMU, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Missouri, Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, Air Force, Boise State, BYU, and UNLV.

Division 1
Texas
Baylor
SMU
Oklahoma State
Air Force
Kansas
Iowa State
Boise State

Division 2
Oklahoma
TCU
Houston
Texas Tech
UNLV
Kansas State
Missouri
BYU

Each team would play 6 of their division opponents each year, their 1 "natural" rival in the other division, which is why I split the states up, and 1 (possibly 2) other opponent(s) from the other division on a rotating basis. (The only problem would be whether Oklahoma's rival would be Texas or Oklahoma State)

Here is why I chose the schools I chose.

Houston, SMU and TCU would add quality football programs and revive old rivalries. SMU and Houston would have the chance to return to national relevance again. TCU would bring a very good Football team into the Big 12 mix.

Air Force has tremendous following all across the Great Plains and Rocky Mountain States probably because of all the Air Forces bases scattered throughout the region. From Sioux Falls, SD to North Dakota to Montana, Colorado, Las Vegas and Utah, Air Force has a nice fan base that could benefit from their presence in a major conference who would dominate the TV airwaves of the region.

Boise State seems to me like a no brainer, maybe because I've been a fan since before we met them in the Humanitarian Bowl. They are to Idaho as what the Huskers are to Nebraska. They aren't a huge TV market, but they don't have any problems with program support and they've been a tremendous marketing machine the last ten years promoting and bringing it into national football relevance.

BYU would secure most of the State of Utah. They have a high major TV market, rich program history and solid athletics all around.

UNLV is the hardest to justify based on current numbers, but I see them benefitting the most from joining a major conference like a Big 12 Super Conference. The confence (and fans) in turn gets the opportunity to enjoy Vegas at least once a year in either football or basketball. With the Air Force base outside Vegas, and UNLV in the same conference it would sure up Vegas and most of Nevada as a Big 12 State.

I know it would sound a little odd to go after a number of smaller schools in the MWC instead of programs like Pitt and Notre Dame, but we would get to pick the biggest and best. We'd only fight the Pac 10 for TV time in Colorado, and the Big 10 for TV time in Nebraska, but solidly gain, Idaho, Utah, and Nevada. It may not seem like much but gaining Wyoming, Montana, and the Dakotas without even having a school in any of those states would just be icing on the cake. If Missouri ever decided to bolt (since they seem currently to be the next school that might want to bolt), Colorado State or Nevada could fill their place. It would be a drop in quality, but it wouldn't be a big hit overall because of everything we'd gain jumping to a Super Conference.

Houston and SMU would hurt recruiting for Mizzou/KSU/KU/ISU and Texas will not want to elevate their programs.

Air Force does not bring the fanbase that you claim. Not even close.

Boisie St in all their glory brings in 33K per game. That is it. They have also had their success built of partial qualifiers which would not fly in the Big 12. Good national recognition but I truly wonder how they would do facing a tough game week in and week out. Urban Meyer was a fan of a playoff when he was at UTah but he wasn't when he moved to Florida. After he coached at both he realized his Utah team could beat any SEC team on any given Sturday but no way they would have survived in the SEC.

BYU is a given

UNLV?


What you basically did was combine the Big 12 and WAC/Confernce USA. That would be terribly disappointing. If you are going to combine confernces then just join the Big East and Big 12 together for an 18 team conference. Atleast you are combining two BCS confernces and MBB and WBB would be hands down the best conference.

 

[tazclone]

You would have a very tough time convincing Texas to let in one of TCU, SMU, and Houston, much less all three. This scenario will never happen.

What also won't happen is Fresno St and such schools to the Pac 12. The Pac 12 isn't going toet a school like Fresno St in for three reasons - they do not expand the Pac 12 Conference footprint (California is already saturated with USC, UCLA, Cal, and Stanford), their academics are horrible (the Pac 12 cares about academic profile), and Fresno would be a monetary drain on the conference. If the Pac 12's interest in OSU, TT, and K-State (none of which are really Pac 12 level academic institutions) hinges upon riding on the cocktails of OU, Texas, and KU, respectively, Fresno has no chance of getting in, especially since it has no cocktails to grab onto.

What you don't seem to get is if this thing goes to superconferences not everyone is going to be happy with the result. 4, no more than 5, conferences will survive to become superconferences. At least one, likely two, of the Big 12, Big East, and ACC are going to be destroyed in the process. The vast majority of the MWC, WAC, and CUSA are not going to be picked up, as most of them have questionable academics, all will be money drains, and there are plenty of Big 12, Big East, and ACC schools to choose from.

Why do you think there's such panic within Cyclone Nation? Because if superconferences form and as a result the Big 12 dies, short of a mercy invite from the Big 10 ISU is screwed, because for the most part ISU offers nothing the Big 10 doesn't have or can't get elsewhere in terms of TVs and academics, we're not geographically desirable for most other conferences, and our best backup plan in the Big East is likely to get picked apart as well.

ISU's best chance at staying relevant is Texas and OU remaining solidly committed to the Big 12. Either case will prevent superconferences from forming, because most realistic scenarios require the destruction of the Big 12. The other thing that could do (if the Big 12 could ever grow an aggressive bone) is be one of the first to 16, ensuring stability.

But your idea that there are 6 superconferences where all the current existing BCS teams remain happy and several mid-major schools get promoted quite simply is a fairy tale that in reality has zero chance of happening.

If superconfernces form, the Big 12 and Big East will join forces and become one. That footprint would be HUGE and would be financially beneficial to everyone especially because ND would be forced to join a conference and would slide right in.

 

[jdoggivjc]

If superconfernces form, the Big 12 and Big East will join forces and become one. That footprint would be HUGE and would be financially beneficial to everyone especially because ND would be forced to join a conference and would slide right in.

This is the scenario I'm referring to where the Big 12 becomes a superconference and is why I listed the ACC as a conference in jeopardy - if Texas and Oklahoma stay committed to the Big 12 and add BYU, the Big 12 stabilizes as a conference. Then if things really go to 16, you can force ND's hand (we're the only superconference that will let you keep/maintain your NBC deal) and go after Pitt, Louisville, and WVA, perhaps AF, CSU, and/or NM, or even get ballsy and go after Arkansas and/or other disgruntled Big 10 or ACC teams.

But this all depends on Texas', Oklahoma's, and to an extent Missouri's commitment to the Big 12. If Mizzou decides to follow A&M to the SEC and/or Texas and Oklahoma decide to go east or west, or, God help us, to the B1G, then the ACC is the survivor because then a Big 12/Big East alliance doesn't have the power to survive being picked apart from the four remaining conferences.

 

[iowast8fan]

no reason to not expand except fear of lost revenue due to further sharing, but that is better than the collapse of the conference. I agree with the OP. The Big12 should move and become a super conference before the BigTen, SEC, and Pac12. It's proactive rather than reactive. Who cares if we add some smaller schools. Do we really want a conference full of power schools? Some super powers are needed to keep the conference relevant, but as soon as you add 4-7 more schools that have top 10 potential, your other teams suddenly have a much more difficult path to national championships and BCS bowls. If I'm Texas or Oklahoma, I don't want to see an additional 4-7 difficult games on my schedule (same reason they don't like the conference championship game). I also don't want to see my conference fall apart. It makes sense.

 

[IcSyU]

no reason to not expand except fear of lost revenue due to further sharing, but that is better than the collapse of the conference. I agree with the OP. The Big12 should move and become a super conference before the BigTen, SEC, and Pac12. It's proactive rather than reactive. Who cares if we add some smaller schools. Do we really want a conference full of power schools? Some super powers are needed to keep the conference relevant, but as soon as you add 4-7 more schools that have top 10 potential, your other teams suddenly have a much more difficult path to national championships and BCS bowls. If I'm Texas or Oklahoma, I don't want to see an additional 4-7 difficult games on my schedule (same reason they don't like the conference championship game). I also don't want to see my conference fall apart. It makes sense.

No it doesn't. I don't know if you're much of a math person, but if you have a pie that has to feed 10 mouths, then the pie stays the same size and you have to feed 16 mouths, you have 10 ****** off mouths. If picking up small schools was the ticket, everyone would do it because it's reallllly easy.

 

[tazclone]

This is obviously what you do if the Big 12 had an aggressive AD like the PAC 12 or Big Ten whose main goal is for the league to prosper and dominate other conferences.

I think Beebe wants to protect UT's interests and little else. UT would bleed the conference dry and if it dies, they're fine with an invite to other conferences or going independent.

We need to expand. Beebe should have been fired immediately for not replacing Colorado with BYU. IMMEDIATELY. I said so at the time and about half of the board was posting complete denial nonsense about how BYU doesn't add anything. A mountain team left, a mountain team with similar or superior athletic tradition and a much bigger fan base was available and Beebe intentionally chose to not invite them. He's a luddite and we're going nowhere when that's the kind of leadership we have.

BYU was such a no brainer because they were DYING to join a BCS league with Utah going Pac 12. Now we are crossing our fingers they join, they'd have JOINED FOR SURE if we had simply done what was best for the entire league in the first place and asked them to replace CU immediately.

We should already be a ten team conference with A&M leaving. We'd be looking to move to 12 from a place of strength rather than weakness. 4 Big East teams would be more likely to join us if we had major teams coming on board instead of just leaving.

People that blame Beebe continue to show zero understanding of what a Comissioners duties are and who controls the conference. THE PRESIDENTS CONTROL THE CONFERENCE. Beebe and every Big 12 President have been handcuffed by the presidents until now. The presidents have never wanted to expand. The presidents could never get on the same page. The presidents always fought (thank you a$m, nebraska and UT). The biggest whiners about Texas were the deciding votes on things like revenue sharing and a Big 12 Network. they sided with Texas every time. That has changed. The presidents finally gave Beebe the go ahead to be aggressive. The Presidents gave Beebe some power last year and he hit a homerun renogtiating the TV contracts. They have given him some power to be aggresive if/when a$m leaves so we will see what he does.

Beebe wasn't fired because he was doing what the presidents wanted him to do. You demonstrate a lot of ignorance by blaming him. BTW- That great guy Larry Scott...he went after Texas and OU and eneded up with CU and Utah. Wow, he is awesome. Talk about a guy that needs to be fired.

 

[tazclone]

At some point, the ACC and/or Big Ten will come looking, and they'll find Big East schools. The Big 12 will not be the only league getting poached.

People who think the Big East is safe and stable are in denial. Pitt, WV, Louisville, and Uconn will all be prime targets of the ACC, SEC and Big Ten this week when the SEC goes to 13. The SEC will likely take an ACC or Big East team to go along with A&M, just likely that 14th team has not been blabbing about it like A&M. Colorado wasn't blabbing on about joining the Pac 10, but they did quite quickly.

I'd still say the Big East is less likely to exist as a "major" football conference than the Big 12. 5 conferences is most likely right now. The only question is the mix of Big 12 and Big East schools making up that 5th league. There's even an outside chance the ACC gets poached by SEC and Big Ten and some ACC schools are in the same situation as us and the Big East.

4 leagues for a neat playoff just isn't going to work without lawsuits and leaving some BCS teams out. We'll still have 5 major leagues at least, and a fake one game playoff. There needs to be a committee just like basketball, 5 or 6 conference champs and 2 or 3 at large bids = best sporting event in history.

ND will become a full fledged member and the Big East and Big 12 will merge to form a mega confernce. ND in the east and Texas/OU in the west

 

[tazclone]

This is the scenario I'm referring to where the Big 12 becomes a superconference and is why I listed the ACC as a conference in jeopardy - if Texas and Oklahoma stay committed to the Big 12 and add BYU, the Big 12 stabilizes as a conference. Then if things really go to 16, you can force ND's hand (we're the only superconference that will let you keep/maintain your NBC deal) and go after Pitt, Louisville, and WVA, perhaps AF, CSU, and/or NM, or even get ballsy and go after Arkansas and/or other disgruntled Big 10 or ACC teams.

But this all depends on Texas', Oklahoma's, and to an extent Missouri's commitment to the Big 12. If Mizzou decides to follow A&M to the SEC and/or Texas and Oklahoma decide to go east or west, or, God help us, to the B1G, then the ACC is the survivor because then a Big 12/Big East alliance doesn't have the power to survive being picked apart from the four remaining conferences.

If Mizzou goes to the SEC, The rest of the Big 12 could still join the Big East. Same with OU although the value of the conference drops.

Think out of the box for a minute though. What if Texas gets ND and tOSU to get together with some of the Big East schools? You don't think tOSU is looking at the LHN and saying hmmm. Texas and OU in and West Division. tOSU and ND in the East.

 

[Rickybaby]

ND will become a full fledged member and the Big East and Big 12 will merge to form a mega confernce. ND in the east and Texas/OU in the west

That would absolutely be the best scenario.

 

[Wesley]

I think it is time to expand the geography of the Big 12. That is to avoid SMU, Houston, Rice entries. Just get on an airplane and go play BYU or Pittsburgh. Get more national exposure. The time to strike is now. Big Ten, Pac ten, and SEC will continue to be on the prowl for the next five years.

 

[jdoggivjc]

If Mizzou goes to the SEC, The rest of the Big 12 could still join the Big East. Same with OU although the value of the conference drops.

Think out of the box for a minute though. What if Texas gets ND and tOSU to get together with some of the Big East schools? You don't think tOSU is looking at the LHN and saying hmmm. Texas and OU in and West Division. tOSU and ND in the East.

I've thought similar scenarios. In fact, I've argued previously in other threads that a stable Big 12 conference, especially if ND is added, potentially means an unstable B1G because teams like OSU and Michigan, if the Big 12 model works, aren't going to continue to share revenues equally with Northwestern and Indiana when schools like Texas and Oklahoma keep what they make all while schools like ISU and K-State are better off. This is usually followed by Hawk fans calling me bat-**** crazy, reminding me that the Big 12 model can't possibly work. I attribute this to denial because in fact if the Big.12 model DOES work, suddenly Iowa is in ISU'S position - a school in a small state that's in a geographically undesirable location that already has its TVs covered by its in-state rival. It's all fun for them when the Big 12 is crumbling around ISU, but they don't want to be reminded.that the B1G could potentially crumble around them and they would be as powerless as ISU is right now.

That being said, it doesn't change the fact this is all 100% dependent on Texas and OU being committed to the Big 12. If they are not, and head to one of several conferences, then a merged.Big 12/Big East simply isn't powerful enough to stave off being picked apart.

 

[HFCS]

People that blame Beebe continue to show zero understanding of what a Comissioners duties are and who controls the conference. THE PRESIDENTS CONTROL THE CONFERENCE. Beebe and every Big 12 President have been handcuffed by the presidents until now. The presidents have never wanted to expand. The presidents could never get on the same page. The presidents always fought (thank you a$m, nebraska and UT). The biggest whiners about Texas were the deciding votes on things like revenue sharing and a Big 12 Network. they sided with Texas every time. That has changed. The presidents finally gave Beebe the go ahead to be aggressive. The Presidents gave Beebe some power last year and he hit a homerun renogtiating the TV contracts. They have given him some power to be aggresive if/when a$m leaves so we will see what he does.

Beebe wasn't fired because he was doing what the presidents wanted him to do. You demonstrate a lot of ignorance by blaming him. BTW- That great guy Larry Scott...he went after Texas and OU and eneded up with CU and Utah. Wow, he is awesome. Talk about a guy that needs to be fired.

I don't think Larry Scott is a great guy, but he is aggressive and he only cares about his league's success. Five leagues are being aggressive (let us not forget the ACC already did its poaching a few years back and the Big East is one top ten team stronger this season). ONE BCS league not. Adding CU and Utah is a good thing for the Pac 12. New markets with a team that was elite in the 80s/90s and a team that was elite in the 00s. They only lost, oh wait the Pac 12 didn't lose a top 5 and two top 30 football programs, that was us.

Beebe, UT, the presidents, or whoever the mighty TAZ deems made the decisions were idiotic not to add BYU and go to 11 teams the minute CU/Neb left. The TV contract would have been split 11 ways instead of 10 but it would have included a new region the league had just lost along with a much more national fanbase than CU. Iowa State is in a more dangerous position than it should be because the Big 12 was stupid and meek last summer.

Look at this board, people have their fingers crossed that BYU will accept an invitation there was a 99.999% chance they accept last year. That's the definition of a F-up right there, take off the blinders man.

 

[Peter]

BYU is the obvious choice right now. I think Bebee should just focus all his attention on getting them to join the conference next year. This will get us back up to 10 teams (a nice number IMO) and help us end the "recession" in the Big XII. Adding a quality school will help us shed the preception that the Big XII is dying; we will look like a viable conference that schools actually want to join.

Schools like UNLV, Air Force...etc are a big reach for a power conference. I think Bebee should take one step at a time and add quality schools as they become available. Once BYU is in and we become a conference that is expanding rather than shrinking, we'll have a better chance with the big prizes like ND.

 

[CyBobby]

This is silly.

Thats right not only silly but really stupid !!