I'm sorry to say it, but there needs to be some questions on Herman as OC

[Palmer]

I guess I'll wait for the Neb game to make an accurate comparison then. In last year's win at Lincoln, Jessie Smith and Michael Brandtner, both McCarney players, were dominant players; they were named Big 12 Defensive and Special teams players of the week respectively. Smith ended up leading the Big 12 in tackles for the season.

your constant revisionist history of DMac's time here is sad.


56-85.

The guy was not a good coach and couldn't win the North when everyone was down.

He left the program in a ****** state and the Chiz compounded it.

That is why he will never coach D1 again.

 

[mt85]

This thread frustrates me. The fact that we've won as many games as we have under this coaching staff is beyond impressive. This staff has gotten more out less then any staff I can remember at ISU.

Anyone that can't see the talent gap that ISU is facing hasn't been paying attention.

Some folks need to get a grip on reality, and stop expecting instant gratification.

 

[CYinPA]

This thread frustrates me. The fact that we've won as many games as we have under this coaching staff is beyond impressive. This staff has gotten more out less then any staff I can remember at ISU.

Anyone that can't see the talent gap that ISU is facing hasn't been paying attention.

Some folks need to get a grip on reality, and stop expecting instant gratification.

If you think this offense has gotten more out of less than any in ISU history, you are not familiar with ISU history.
The talent gap is exactly why some are questioning the philosophy of the offense. Are we trying to run an offense that needs the same caliber recruits that MU, Ok. St, etc get to have success in the Big 12? If so, this offense itself will do a good job preventing ISU from getting those athletes the offense needs.

 

[RossHallHero]

The talent gap is exactly why some are questioning the philosophy of the offense. Are we trying to run an offense that needs the same caliber recruits that MU, Ok. St, etc get to have success in the Big 12?

This is my biggest concern with the offense.

If you look at the recruiting, it magnifies the problem moving forward.

 

[Acylum]

Spread offense + not the most accurate qbs + receivers who can't get separation = what we've got right now.

 

[mt85]

If you think this offense has gotten more out of less than any in ISU history, you are not familiar with ISU history.
The talent gap is exactly why some are questioning the philosophy of the offense. Are we trying to run an offense that needs the same caliber recruits that MU, Ok. St, etc get to have success in the Big 12? If so, this offense itself will do a good job preventing ISU from getting those athletes the offense needs.

I'm very familiar with ISU history, and what you fail to recognize is that there isn't an offensive philosophy that can be successful against top ten opponents with the talent that we currently have.

 

[Wesley]

I'm very familiar with ISU history, and what you fail to recognize is that there isn't an offensive philosophy that can be successful against top ten opponents with the talent that we currently have.

Twelve months ago we were not having this conversation. Three skunkings have changed our attitude.

Inthink Coach Herman needs to work on plays that definitely get five yards on first down. No more bullcrap stopped at the line of scrimmage on first down.

Time to go back to Money. He looks ready to roll and do much better.

 

[tazclone]

I agree that it's too early, but I would like to compare our offensive stats from the Chizik era to the Rhoads era. I thought Robert McFarland was a pretty bad offensive coordinator, but in retrospect, I think our offense was just as good those two seasons than it has been the past two. I thought Herman would be able to out-scheme people, but he has definitely not done that. The defense, until the past two games, has definitely been better under Wally Burnham.

Year two of McFarland was pretty productive in yardage. Our red zone offense was not good but we had great success between the 20's. We averaged 60 yards per game more throwing the ball in 08' than 09' and 80 YPG more than 10' with the same QB and similar receivers. We runn the ball about the saem 4.1 YPC in 08' 4.5 in 09' and 4.1 in 10'. Our problem with chizdick wasn't on the offensive side of the ball. It was defense.

 

[Tre4ISU]

Hmmm...last year's team featured lots of Mac-recruited starters: we go to a bowl!
This year's team has fewer Mac players...and the team isn't as good.
Not too difficult to figure out...

Switch Utah for Army and we would again this year. Totally different deal.

 

[mcblogerson]

We're joining the spread era 5 years after everyone else in the conference did, just like we stopped running the triple option after everyone but nebraska.

If you have the players the spread works wonders against a more talented defense. The problem is now so many schools run it, and all the defenses have adjusted to smaller, quicker d-lines and more corners and safeties. Why not jump back and run prostyle powerI type offense like Boise st or Iowa?

That being said, calling out Herman when he doesn't have any of his players is completely backwards. Once we have a system, stocked with the right players, and most of the starters are redshirted juniors or seniors playing in the same offense for years it'll work, or Herman will be somewhere else.

He's a young coordinator getting his first shot in a big conference. I'll be holding my judgement on his talents till about 2012. Besides I thought we'd win about 4 or 5 games this year, we have 2 winnable games and a couple long shots left, not bad considering where we're at.

 

[tazclone]

keep dreaming and get writing those letters.....it will make you feel better.

Your right. Air Force and Utah St have more playmakers. Stop for a minute and think. The guy said we have enough playmakers to score a TD against OU. He isn't saying we could beat them or score two just one. FWIW-Utah State scored 3 and Air Force scored 3 against OU.

 

[Cyclone1985]

We have enough playmakers to put the ball in the enzone at least once against OU. ISU O is awful...please don't spin it.

The Quarterback makes or breaks the offense. Unfortunately, ours does the latter.

 

[tazclone]

I agree that ISU isn't playing with the right type of players (talent and 'system' wise)

Herman has said that he wants leaner lineman that are extremely mobile in the 6'5" or 6'6" region weighing no more than 300 lbs. Burris is the only one that fits that mold.

Arnaud and Tiller are dual threat quarterbacks, hence the predictable read plays all the time and lack of passing ability.

Herman needs speedy possession receivers---ISU has alot of players that fit that mold of a possession receiver (Darks, Lenz, Williams, etc.) but they all lack speed

Franklin is the only TE that should see the field for the team otherwise run a true 5 receiver set.

Overall, based on what Herman did at Rice, there are <5 players on the offense that match up with the system he used

Arnaud threw for 2800 yards and a passer rating of 122 in 08' with a 62% completion and 1.4-1 TD/INT ratio. And that was his first year starting. He doesn't fit the system and the sytem doesn't fit him. That is fine and I have no issue with Herman sticking to his system. BUT don't give me this crap that Arnaud can't pass. He can and has passed just fine.

 

[CyBobby]

Tom Herman is the best offensive coordinator in the big 12...Enough Said...





btw cpr said last night he's sticking with the spread offense...same for Herman....


BUY KANSAS TICKETS & SHOW UP FOR THE GAME.........................

 

[Rural]

I saw the opinion that the offense is trying to eat clock to protect the light-in-the-*** defense. That's all well and good but is it going to start anytime soon? Always being in 3rd and 12 doesn't seem like the right approach to accomplish that.

 

[GoShow97]

For the millionth time, we aren't trying to run an "up-tempo" offense. We are running a "no huddle" offense.

Don't kid yourself. This offense is structured to become uptempo. ISU may not be executing it but it is definatley structured as uptempo.

 

[tazclone]

Hmmm...last year's team featured lots of Mac-recruited starters: we go to a bowl!
This year's team has fewer Mac players...and the team isn't as good.
Not too difficult to figure out...

1. How many Mac players did we lose on offense?
2. The difference is strength of schedule and we still have a shot at a bowl game. We need s surprise victory (like last year) to do it but we can still do it.

 

[CyBobby]

your constant revisionist history of DMac's time here is sad.


56-85.

The guy was not a good coach and couldn't win the North when everyone was down.

He left the program in a ****** state and the Chiz compounded it.

That is why he will never coach D1 again.

I don't know how good a coach danny mac was....but five strait wins over the squawkeyes and 5 bowl games in 6 years had never been done at Ia State before...or evidently since!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[tazclone]

Let's keep in mind the level of competition difference between year 2 of McFarland (2008) and year 2 of Herman (2010).


2008 was a year of inflated offensive statistics across the board in the Big XII. Oklahoma (#3), Texas Tech (#4), Oklahoma State (#6), Missouri (#8), Texas (#9), Nebraska (#12), and Kansas (#21) were all in the top 25 nationally in total offense. There wasn't a single Big XII team in the top 25 in total defense. The highest rated defense was #51 Texas. There was likely many bad defenses in the Big XII that year.

The best team we played was 9-4 Iowa or 10-4 Missouri. We faced 5 bowl-eligible teams.

2008:
South Dakota State
Kent (4-8)
@Iowa (9-4)
@UNLV (5-7)
Kansas (8-5)
@Baylor (4-8)
Nebraska (9-4)
TAMU (4-8)
@OSU (9-4)
@Colorado (5-7)
Missouri (10-4)
@KSU (5-7)


In 2010, offenses in the Big XII aren't nearly as prolific. Oklahoma State (#2), Baylor (#8), Oklahoma (#17), TAMU (#18), and Nebraska (#24) rank in the top 25 nationally in total offense. There are currently 2 defenses in the top 25 nationally in total defense. Texas (#4) and Nebraska (#9).

We have only played one team that currently has a losing record (UNI), and I think the 6 FBS teams we've played will all make a bowl game this year, as will at least 3 of the remaining 5, for 9 or 10 bowl teams this year. We are playing 4 teams that potentially could make a BCS bowl (Iowa, Oklahoma, Nebraska, and Utah).

2010:
Northern Illinois (5-2) [probable finish 9-3 or 10-2]
@Iowa (5-1) [10-2 or 11-1]
KSU (5-1) [7-5 or 8-4]
UNI
Texas Tech (3-3) [6-6 or 7-5]
Utah (6-0) [11-1 or 12-0]
@Oklahoma (6-0) [11-1 or 12-0]
@Texas (4-2) [8-4 or 9-3]
Kansas (2-4) [2-10 or 3-9]
Nebraska (5-1) [9-3 or 10-2]
@Colorado (3-3) [5-7 or 6-6]
Missouri (6-0) [9-3 or 10-2]


IMO, our offensive production under Herman has not been good, but probably about what should be anticipated to this point given the level of competition we've faced.

compare it to 07' then. Pretty similar stats in 10' as 07'. Less points but more total yardage. 07' was similar competition and year one of a new system. 10' is similar competition and year two.

 

[CYinPA]

Spread offense + not the most accurate qbs + receivers who can't get separation = what we've got right now.

I think most Cyclone fans agree.
My issue is that there have been 2 classes to get guys that could keep our offense from being horrid. These are not linemen that need years to develop, and I am not expecting All-Conference play- what is going to change? Imo, maybe this indicates how much this is on AA.

Although I am concerned not much will change, I do think we are seeing a different WR being recruited in this and last years class. This change may get the offense back to average. However, if it takes 4 years just to get back to where the offense was, is it really the right choice of offense philosophically?

Another issue is roster management. The aforementioned apparent WR development and/or transition that needs to occur to achieve familiar average results, plus the need for simply more WR, is at the cost of scholarships elsewhere. We know the importance and need for a strong linemen development program is greater than any other position. This too takes numbers. The need of this offensive philosophy to retool the WR position not only creates a lag in offensive performance, but a subsequent cost & challenge to the lines.
A more traditional offense requires you have great success at Oline personnel development. This offense has added WR and QB to that list. Not only do I question the feasibility of this, but the optimality given the unnecessary lag time.