Pollard Addresses MBB

Dryburn

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Disagree. The letter was talking about attrition, not how you deal with it. Both programs have had attrition, just like the letter states. It just happens that BF is better at dealing with it (and probably preventing it). That's why he's a great coach and better at his job than GMac is.

I took it more as "For as strong of a program as he has and as good of a coach as he is, even BF has had to deal with attrition". Not "GMac's situation is comparable to BFs". For the record, I don't think that the transfer situation is nearly as bad on the women's side overall. Girls don't have the bad AAU influences, the money, the agents. Their game isn't as dirty and they don't have the leeches in their ears telling them to transfer.

Still not comparable. BF had one bad year.......and did still did not miss a beat. GMac has had this happen for 4 years, and the program has not progressed from day one. Big difference.

Your points about the differences between the MBB and WBB on a collegiate level are all the more reason not to drag BF into the conversation. The sports are not comparable in any way. Going to the WNBA does not carry the same meaning as going to the NBA.

Dragging BF into it was merely an attempt by JP to make GMac and the MBB program at ISU look better. And for those that can't see through that, it will work, unfortunately.
 

CRAZYGREG

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Not even close bud.....Football is the revenue generator in college athletics...he whiffed on chizeldick and looks like he got a steal in CPR. CPR is gonna make or break Pollard as far as coaching hires are concerned.

Why does everyone hide behind the 2009 football season? Yes we went to a bowl game, yes we won more games than the entire GC era. Why does everyone think that last season was so phenominal and will continue into the future? We have one of, if not the worst schedule of any BCS conference team, (Northwestern and Duke were the only 2 with a worse schedule). CPR was blessed with a very very easy schedule. Hey, he won those games and I give him a lot of credit for that but would GC have won that many games with that easy of a schedule? The schedule for the next 2 seasons do not look that great for ISU and CPR. I am HOPING for the best but not expecting it.

Don't get me wrong, I really like CPR and I am behind him 100% - I have been a season ticket holder since 1994 and go to all the games. I just do not understand how people are so incredibly high on last season. Also, the JP apologists are hiding behind last season's "success". It just does not make sense to me.

What happens if:

10-11 FB = 3-9
10-11 MBB = 10-20
11-12 FB = 3-9
11-12 MBB = 10-20
 

Cyclonestate78

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I wish there was a junk punch option on here.
Nothing could make me do something that drastic.

Hey.... the only reason I feel remotely comfortable in saying that is there is no way in hell that BVD will ever be brought back here. I give JP credit... he is assertive, he makes plans, he doesn't put a limitation on his plans because we are little ole' ISU. All BVD did was sit in his office and collect a check. Look at how many things the Athletic Dept does now... the advertising, tailgate tours, fanfest, and on and on and on, That JP has done at ISU that BVD never did. The guy is a bum.
 

GeronimusClone

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Why does everyone hide behind the 2009 football season? Yes we went to a bowl game, yes we won more games than the entire GC era. Why does everyone think that last season was so phenominal and will continue into the future? We have one of, if not the worst schedule of any BCS conference team, (Northwestern and Duke were the only 2 with a worse schedule). CPR was blessed with a very very easy schedule. Hey, he won those games and I give him a lot of credit for that but would GC have won that many games with that easy of a schedule? The schedule for the next 2 seasons do not look that great for ISU and CPR. I am HOPING for the best but not expecting it.

Don't get me wrong, I really like CPR and I am behind him 100% - I have been a season ticket holder since 1994 and go to all the games. I just do not understand how people are so incredibly high on last season. Also, the JP apologists are hiding behind last season's "success". It just does not make sense to me.
Thanks for hosing down our cereal with urine.
 
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Frak

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I agree with your sentiment in theory. That being said it brings about one huge question that has yet to be answered. JP told the fans to step up and they have in record season ticket sales, donations, highest membership level in the history of the NCC, etc.... This all happened during a time of economic decline during which most people have felt the effects. People have tightened up their own personal budgets yet still found a way to support the Cyclones both in attendance and donations. I would say the fans have done a fantastic job of stepping up to the plate and during hard times financially makes it even more impressive.

JP has done a fine job selling his vision for ISU Athletics and getting the fan base to buy into it. His marketing campaigns have been excellent to date. There is no doubt that he is a great fundraiser. That is only part of his job and only accounts for a portion of his job performance though. He is in charge of putting our athletic programs in a position to succeed based on his decisions of who he selects to run these programs. It isn't a perfect science and every decision he makes isn't going to pan out. GMAC looked like a good decision at the time he made the hire but as is very evident it was not a good hire as he has failed miserably. I think it is more then fair for Cyclone fans to now go to Jamie and ask him to step up and do his share of the heavy lifting. This isn't about being right and wrong. This isn't about being petty. This is about being sold a vision for ISU Athletics by the man who isn't holding up his end of the bargain that he got so many ISU fans to invest in.

But my point is, what "heavy lifting" can Jamie do right now? In my opinion, he has two main duties: 1.Hire good coaches and 2.Put them in position to succeed. I think that he's done a great job at the second part. For MBB, #1 was a FAIL, or at least it looks like it right now. But at this point, he can't alter that choice no matter how bad it looks in retrospect. The only thing he can do is make the decision whether or not it is financially smart to buy out the coach. Evidently, he doesn't believe that we can afford it right now.

I'll agree that the hiring was a bad decision. The second GMac asked for those automatic extensions for NCAA issues, I would have told him to pound sand. Pollard believed he was the guy and did what he needed to get him. What I won't bag on Pollard for is not making a move right now. We all know he has an itchy trigger finger, so IMO the fact that he's not firing GMac doesn't mean he won't, it means that he can't.
 

Frak

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Still not comparable. BF had one bad year.......and did still did not miss a beat. GMac has had this happen for 4 years, and the program has not progressed from day one. Big difference.

Your points about the differences between the MBB and WBB on a collegiate level are all the more reason not to drag BF into the conversation. The sports are not comparable in any way. Going to the WNBA does not carry the same meaning as going to the NBA.

Dragging BF into it was merely an attempt by JP to make GMac and the MBB program at ISU look better. And for those that can't see through that, it will work, unfortunately.

No, you don't get it. It's not comparable because it's not a comparison. No where were the programs compared or equated...not on departures, not on wins, not on distractions or outside influences. My interpretation is that attrition is a nationwide issue and that was being pointed out. Even WBB (BF) has seen some. Like I said, the key is finding a coach to minimize it and its effects. ISU MBB doesn't have that right now.
 

CRAZYGREG

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Yeah, that 2009 FB season sucked. And the 2010 schedule is too tough for us. Might as well cancel the spring game.:jimlad:

I never said that it sucked. I said that people are reading way too much into it and hiding behind it as the one of the greatest seasons in ISU Football hitory. Also, people are using it as a reason that JP is great and made a splash hire with CPR. CPR might be great... I personally just need more evidence of that. I am not ready to throw all of my eggs into that basket after one season with a horrible schedule.
 

CYKOFAN

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Frak-Speaking for myself and I imagine many other longtime Clones, I didn't necessarily "buy into JP's vision". In fact I didn't think much of his vision at all when he canned Morgan and hired GMac, and hired Chizik instead of Kelly. I love Cyclone sports and have for 40 years, so what choice did I have other than to pay the higher ticket prices? I still do, though I am now plugging my nose when I do it when it comes to the basketball program. I'm just so thankful that CPR fell in our lap to give us hope for football, otherwise Cyclone football and basketball would be in worse shape than at any time in at least 40 years. And this overused phrase of "JP's vision" is just some slick slogan that I imagine JP thought up. I'm sure it's the "vision" of every a.d to improve facilities and improve teams, nothing new in that.
 

mark

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Jamie just took at a potshot at a whole generation of kids -- a lot of folks in this age group are on this board (apparently from the Leno vs Conan discussions).

I am not as I am old fart. I would think a few would ****** by the blanket generational rationalization comments. There may be a nugget of truth in his postulate but not bigger than that in my opinion.

What a deflection from looking for any 'real' reasons.
 

rholtgraves

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How is JP's response going to help McD? Schools can now point to this and say, hey recruit they think you are a spoiled egomaniac. or he parent's recruit they think your kid is a spoiled egomaniac. Just add this to the list of things making it harder and harder for us to get recruits, i.e. losing record 4 years in a row, kids saying they don't like the system or the coach, not knowing if McD will even be around after year, and now our AD thinks all kids are babies with big egos
 
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Dryburn

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No, you don't get it. It's not comparable because it's not a comparison. No where were the programs compared or equated...not on departures, not on wins, not on distractions or outside influences. My interpretation is that attrition is a nationwide issue and that was being pointed out. Even WBB (BF) has seen some. Like I said, the key is finding a coach to minimize it and its effects. ISU MBB doesn't have that right now.

Yes, and by bringing up the WBB program under BF, he is absolutely COMPARING what is happening there with what is happening with MBB, and equating them........saying essentially.....see it happens everywhere! The fact is, nothing that happens with players at any WBB program should be used in discussing a MBB program. It makes no sense at all. It is just a lame way of trying to make GMac (and thus JP) look better. Period. There was no other reason to bring it into this discussion. None. JP just associated BF (a successful, well-liked and well-respected coach) with this letter to try and make GMac not look so bad.
 

snowcraig2.0

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The same thing is happening to both coaches, how do you explain that? I think that the transfer problem is a very valid point. It shows that it's a problem regardless of win/loss record, recruiting acumen, coaching style, etc., etc. It is a problem nationwide. I would see the NCAA adopting new tougher rules on transferring.


Yeah, except for Fennelly goes to sweet 16's and Gmac gets beet in Hilton by SDSU...
 

snowcraig2.0

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I agree with what JP said about the younger generation. There is a lack of accountability that is becoming much more prevalent in our society. It's not hard to understand why when you have teachers getting sued for disciplining their students.

That being said, I am seeing even less accountability from JP and Greg. Why couldn't Jamie have came out and just said, 'we are troubled by the recent string of transfers from our MBB program. From myself all the way down to the assistant coach level, we are working on fixing the situation. We thank Cyclone Nation for your continued support'.? Instead we got a big glass full of 'It's not our fault, kids suck these days.'

I also like how he conveniently left out the parts about us sucking the past 4 years, and the fact that we lead high major basketball in transfers over the past 4 years.

This whole thing really makes me question Jamie's ability to take the AD to where we all want it to be. I know he is doing well in increasing the budget. But what in his time here does he have to show for accomplishments in the big two sports, MBB and FB? One bowl victory. That's it. Don't get me wrong, I am still with JP, but I am shaken a bit.
 

Frak

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Frak-Speaking for myself and I imagine many other longtime Clones, I didn't necessarily "buy into JP's vision". In fact I didn't think much of his vision at all when he canned Morgan and hired GMac, and hired Chizik instead of Kelly. I love Cyclone sports and have for 40 years, so what choice did I have other than to pay the higher ticket prices? I still do, though I am now plugging my nose when I do it when it comes to the basketball program. I'm just so thankful that CPR fell in our lap to give us hope for football, otherwise Cyclone football and basketball would be in worse shape than at any time in at least 40 years. And this overused phrase of "JP's vision" is just some slick slogan that I imagine JP thought up. I'm sure it's the "vision" of every a.d to improve facilities and improve teams, nothing new in that.

If it's so easy just to raise ticket prices, fire a couple of coaches and then claim success, then why hadn't it happened before? I mean, nothing was stopping BVDV from raising ticket prices. Why didn't he? It's because what was needed was a plan, a vision, something for the fanbase to rally around and get excited about. That's what I mean by buying in.

In my opinion "many other longtime Clones" are the ones who constantly complain about the ticket prices. They like the good old days when Johnny Majors was coaching and can't understand why ISU shouldn't win these days with the same budget. JP is the devil for asking more money of them. Hell, many of them are probably the ones who initially gave a chunk of cash for construction of JTS only to freeload for their entire lives and the lives of their kids.
 

Frak

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Yes, and by bringing up the WBB program under BF, he is absolutely COMPARING what is happening there with what is happening with MBB, and equating them........saying essentially.....see it happens everywhere! The fact is, nothing that happens with players at any WBB program should be used in discussing a MBB program. It makes no sense at all. It is just a lame way of trying to make GMac (and thus JP) look better. Period. There was no other reason to bring it into this discussion. None. JP just associated BF (a successful, well-liked and well-respected coach) with this letter to try and make GMac not look so bad.

I guess people just need to look for a reason to get upset. I didn't see BF as a "human shield" or "getting thrown under the bus". I saw a letter that listed a whole bunch of schools and conferences that have had issues with attrition. It wasn't a comparison, it was a list. My opinion is that everyone has attrition to some degree. BF does too. The key is what you do with the attrition and how you learn from it. Obviously the MBB case is extreme and the coach is where the buck stops. If you think that letter makes GMac look better, then you are easily duped. To me it just makes the problem more viewable and shows that everyone else has issues with attrition too (although not to that extent).

IMO people upset over this letter didn't like Pollard in the first place...probably because he asked for more money than you are used to paying for seats.
 
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Dryburn

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I guess people just need to look for a reason to get upset. I didn't see BF as a "human shield" or "getting thrown under the bus". I saw a letter that listed a whole bunch of schools and conferences that have had issues with attrition. It wasn't a comparison, it was a list. My opinion is that everyone has attrition to some degree. BF does too. The key is what you do with the attrition and how you learn from it. Obviously the MBB case is extreme and the coach is where the buck stops. If you think that letter makes GMac look better, then you are easily duped. To me it just makes the problem more viewable and shows that everyone else has issues with attrition too (although not to that extent).

IMO people upset over this letter didn't like Pollard in the first place...probably because he asked for more money than you are used to paying for seats.

First of all, I could care less what he charges for tickets. I live on the West coast, so it is not likely I will be attending any games soon anyway.

I think the ones that support JP and what he said in the letter are the ones easily duped. To act like what has gone on with the ISU MBB program over the last four years in terms of players transferring is just normal and has gone on everywhere is just stupid.

Name one other school that lost a two-year all-conference starter, who actually put his career on hold for a year to get away from his first college, and then became a likely lotter pick in the NBA draft. Name another school that lost a starter who showed all sorts of potential, and received nothing but praise from the media and then decides to transfer and tells the lie that it is so he can be closer to home, then signs fairly quickly with a school that is even further away. Name another school that had a starter, whom the school and fans had bent over backwards to support, who decided to quit in the middle of the season and gave the reason that he had to quit then because otherwise an opportunity might not be available to him later, which of course turned out not to be true at all. If you really believe that what is happening at ISU is happening at other schools.....constantly over the last four years.......then give us all one example.

As far as JP goes, I was fine with him on most of the things that he has done. I did not agree with him in the takeover of Hilton, because I did not see how that would benefit the University or the Athletic Department financially, plus I had a little personal insight as to why the Athletic Department did not have control of that facility in the first place. I also had some real problems with the letter he wrote to the kid that complained about the MBB program. That could have been handled much more professionally. No need to turn off a potential future supporter. And then this letter now that is just a CYA memo. I have no idea why JP sticks up for GMac the way he does, except that GMac was his hire. There is no other logical reason. It just looks stupid.

The MBB program at ISU has become an embarrassment. The most recognition that the ISU MBB program received this past season was when it was mentioned as being the school where WJ transferred from.

If you can't understand that.....then I think you are the one being duped.
 
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Frak

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I never said that it sucked. I said that people are reading way too much into it and hiding behind it as the one of the greatest seasons in ISU Football hitory. Also, people are using it as a reason that JP is great and made a splash hire with CPR. CPR might be great... I personally just need more evidence of that. I am not ready to throw all of my eggs into that basket after one season with a horrible schedule.

I wouldn't place it as one of the greatest seasons in ISU history, but after the prior 3, it may be one of the greatest turnarounds. I have no doubt that CPR was a great hire and coach. That doesn't automatically mean "JP is great". It was basically a slam dunk hire and JP did hire Chizik... My opinion on Chizik is that even though he's a decent coach, will win at AU and would have done OK at ISU, he never would have stayed and he didn't connect to the fans. SO, IMO he was a bad hire from the start.

The key to keeping the momentum going through the next two years of tough schedules is to keep the coaching staff intact. Getting our coaches hired away is the quickest way to ensure the program falls apart. And that goes back to my main point about GMac. THIS is where Pollard is likely putting the money. Do people actually understand that SEC assistant coaches make DOUBLE what ours do? The second we start having any real success, the SEC and Big 11 are going to start poaching our coaches. Hell, they did it this year. FB is the lifeblood of our AD, just like any AD. So why siphon off $500k of that a year to mess with a sport that barely makes money?