Young's Hit

[madguy30]

Just saw the play for the first time, including Horne's near call.

Both were close; my unpopular opinion that I'll get fried for is that flying high for the big hit is poor technique old or new school and high risk for getting called for targeting, and both defensive players were in a position to be effective with a clean low tackle at the point of contact.

Eisworth does this too.

 

[Aclone]

Has this been appealed, do we know?

They don’t announce it, they just send the video off to the conference office. Only way we’ll hear anything is if it’s overruled—or maybe only even if he’s playing in the first half against OSU.

They quietly send videos to the conference office of things they aren’t happy about regularly. It’s different from the high profile, end of (KU) game deciders, basketball scenarios we’re used to.

 

[cyclonespiker33]

Just saw the play for the first time, including Horne's near call.

Both were close; my unpopular opinion that I'll get fried for is that flying high for the big hit is poor technique old or new school and high risk for getting called for targeting, and both defensive players were in a position to be effective with a clean low tackle at the point of contact.

Eisworth does this too.

I have a hard time seeing how this is "flying high"

Young's Hit

Anthony and Brock Forsey in the Smurf Bowl, that's what they have in mind. Both the ones yesterday, total nonsense.

cyclonefanatic.com

 

[Aclone]

IMO, With a 3 score lead late in the 4th Qtr, Young and other key players should have been off the field.

There were a bunch of key players off the field. That’s how Tech scored with a backup QB.

You might have noticed Horne in on the previous play, instead of Jake Hummel. Youngsters were in at other positions. Isheem Young wasn’t one of them because as a freshman, he needs reps.

 

[AuH2O]

Yeah I think I was being too critical. The only thing Young could've done was either drop to his knees and take the guys legs out, or essentially be able to know that the guy was going to dip his helmet and make sure not an inch of his helmet hit the guy.

So, overall, virtually impossible to Young to make that decision in real time and it was a ticky tack call where two helmets made contact with one another (just like every single play in football).

This is the biggest flaw in this rule, or pretty much any penalty in football. Offensive players, particularly RBs, create tons of head to head contact. WRs are always dipping the head at contact, and RBs flat out use the crown of their helmet as a weapon all the time.

If they cared about safety they'd start kicking WRs and RBs out for this. But then the dumb fans that think football is only fun when it's a glorified 7 on 7 game won't watch. Instead a DB can be in position and do everything right only to have a WR duck and create head to head contact.

 

[BuffettClone]

This is the biggest flaw in this rule, or pretty much any penalty in football. Offensive players, particularly RBs, create tons of head to head contact. WRs are always dipping the head at contact, and RBs flat out use the crown of their helmet as a weapon all the time.

If they cared about safety they'd start kicking WRs and RBs out for this. But then the dumb fans that think football is only fun when it's a glorified 7 on 7 game won't watch. Instead a DB can be in position and do everything right only to have a WR duck and create head to head contact.

I agree with this. The refs need to seriously take this into account when a targeting call is being reviewed. Young was already tackling low and away from the head until the WR bent down and ducked his head low putting it in the path of Young's tackle. The WR essentially created the head to head contact as you mentioned so Young shouldn't be penalized.

I also never understood why a running back is allowed to lower their heads and ram their helmet at somebody or grab a defender's facemask and push/pull it around in the guise of a stiff arm. Apparently head and neck safety matters more for offensive players than those who play defense.

 

[madguy30]

I have a hard time seeing how this is "flying high"

Young's Hit

Anthony and Brock Forsey in the Smurf Bowl, that's what they have in mind. Both the ones yesterday, total nonsense.

cyclonefanatic.com

I'd say the pad level is higher than needed to simply make the play.

 

[Aclone]

I also never understood why a running back is allowed to lower their heads and ram their helmet at somebody or grab a defender's facemask and push/pull it around in the guise of a stiff arm. Apparently head and neck safety matters more for offensive players than those who play defense.

Because when they’re doing this, they’re not “defenseless”. Nor are the defensive players involved. Which is, by every official NCAA announcement, specifically what the “targeting” rule was put in place to protect.

The interpretation of that rule, however, is kinda like the original, express intent of HIPAA. Everyone just applies it wherever and however they want to.

 

[BuffettClone]

Because when they’re doing this, they’re not “defenseless”. Nor are the defensive players involved. Which is, by every official NCAA announcement, specifically what the “targeting” rule was put in place to protect.

The interpretation of that rule, however, is kinda like the original, express intent of HIPAA. Everyone just applies it wherever and however they want to.

And that's where I have an issue with the enforcement of targeting. When a ball carrier lowers their head down and assumes a defensive position to brace himself for impact, he should lose the "defenseless" protection.

 

[AuH2O]

Because when they’re doing this, they’re not “defenseless”. Nor are the defensive players involved. Which is, by every official NCAA announcement, specifically what the “targeting” rule was put in place to protect.

The interpretation of that rule, however, is kinda like the original, express intent of HIPAA. Everyone just applies it wherever and however they want to.

Except the WRs, defenseless or not duck and create the head to head contact. So they turn what would be a legal tackle into targeting by ducking and putting their head down in many cases, and it's not physically possible to adjust or change for the defender. If a WR, defenseless or not catches a ball and immediately bends over and puts their head down they should be flagged and suspended. When they do that they are often turning a sound, legal tackle into a dangerous situation for both players.

Status of a player as defenseless is irrelevant if the player is using the crown of the helmet to initiate contact with a defender, or grabbing the facemask. Those are always penalties and always have been. They just don't get called hardly ever. The fact that RBs can stick their crown in a defenders chin is probably the most blatant safety issue that almost never gets called.

The problem is they are treating situations where a tackler does everything right, or almost right the same as a guy launching with his head down using his helmet as a weapon. Like many rules, it's horribly enforced.

 

[TedKumsher]

I would like to see it changed to 30 minutes of game clock or some set time amount which addresses that issue. Or at the least, go to quarters. Ejected for current + next two quarters so fourth quarter is first half of next game same as today but third quarter would be first quarter only in next game.

I don't see that happening -- again if ejection is warranted, there is no way you would let them back in the same game they were ejected from.

 

[qwerty]

I don't see that happening -- again if ejection is warranted, there is no way you would let them back in the same game they were ejected from.

I agree on that. Maybe something like end of current game or 30 minutes whichever is longer. That way ejections in first half are the rest of the current game. Ejections in the 2nd half are rest of the current game plus some additional time carried over to the next game but not an entire half.
Minimum penalty is xx time amount if ejected at anytime in second half.
Maximum penalty is almost 60 minutes if ejected on first play of game.

Probably never happen.

 

[CycloneVet917]

Young is coming along well... the whole defense is actually coming together really well.

 

[Aclone]

Except the WRs, defenseless or not duck and create the head to head contact. So they turn what would be a legal tackle into targeting by ducking and putting their head down in many cases, and it's not physically possible to adjust or change for the defender. If a WR, defenseless or not catches a ball and immediately bends over and puts their head down they should be flagged and suspended. When they do that they are often turning a sound, legal tackle into a dangerous situation for both players.

Status of a player as defenseless is irrelevant if the player is using the crown of the helmet to initiate contact with a defender, or grabbing the facemask. Those are always penalties and always have been. They just don't get called hardly ever. The fact that RBs can stick their crown in a defenders chin is probably the most blatant safety issue that almost never gets called.

The problem is they are treating situations where a tackler does everything right, or almost right the same as a guy launching with his head down using his helmet as a weapon. Like many rules, it's horribly enforced.

That’s what I’m saying. The rule is being used in ways for which it was never intended.

 

[MartyFine]

 

[JM4CY]

Well I would hope so...

 

[VeloClone]

That’s what I’m saying. The rule is being used in ways for which it was never intended.

Its almost like they need a rule for standard unsafe tackles and targeting for a situation where a player targets a player attempting to cause harm. Oh wait, they do, but it hasn't been defined correctly and is getting way over-applied. NCAA, fix this.

 

[VeloClone]

You were 15 minutes late...

 

[AuH2O]

This is the biggest flaw in this rule, or pretty much any penalty in football. Offensive players, particularly RBs, create tons of head to head contact. WRs are always dipping the head at contact, and RBs flat out use the crown of their helmet as a weapon all the time.

If they cared about safety they'd start kicking WRs and RBs out for this. But then the dumb fans that think football is only fun when it's a glorified 7 on 7 game won't watch. Instead a DB can be in position and do everything right only to have a WR duck and create head to head contact.

On the same topic, if anyone saw the Vikings-Falcons game, there's a swing pass to Todd Gurley. As the DB comes up to make a tackle (Gladney I think), Gurley absolutely lowers his helmet, goes crown first. Gladney lowers his head and makes the tackle. It's a PF on MN. You have both players lowering their heads and creating a dangerous situation, but it is only a penalty on the defense.

It's absolutely ridiculous that Isheem Young's hit is targeting, when you have an offensive player in Gurley's case committing a textbook, dangerous penalty, that was even illegal 50 years ago, and he is not penalized.

You can improve safety in the game instantly by enforcing these penalties on offensive players.