What was the beginning of the end?

[dualthreat]

Has dirty 90 mentioned the Liberty bowl yet? Crazy mother ****** was right all along!

 

[ruxCYtable]

Liberty Bowl, Mess promotion, conference realignment.

I still think, and I know many will disagree, CPR's loyalty to Wally was also a downfall.

 

[allfourcy]

I know we've struggled defending some of the high flying big12 teams, but am I the only one that thinks Wally has actually done well with what he gets to work with? And, I'm talking over several years, not just this season.

 

[Die4Cy]

Liberty Bowl, Mess promotion, conference realignment.

I still think, and I know many will disagree, CPR's loyalty to Wally was also a downfall.

I've always taken a fairly jaded view of Wally's defenses here, with the notable exception of his Klein/Knott teams. But CPR never got the offense where it needed to be to compete in the Big 12, and in this league, that's a huge problem.

 

[norcalcy]

The 2013 season when it was clear how much of a gap in talent there was, and how the team got rung up by UNI.

Not sure why the Liberty Bowl still has so much clout; I can't think of too many bowls from the previous season that really impacted a program in the long run, or even the next season. A basic coaching/team sport principle is the idea to turn the page every week, so I'm not sure how a bowl appearance impacts a program for 3 years. If anything, it should have been a lesson on stronger fundamentals/preparation.

Except it was the exact opposite. The end of the '12 Season (Liberty Bowl) and the beginning of '13 (UNI loss) were a continuation of more of the same. How in the hell does a team come out and stink it up for a bowl game AND it's home opener in consecutive opportunities? Everyone loves CPR and he appears to be a very good man. But this is the stretch that showed me there was major dysfunction in the program's management.

 

[IAStubborn]

I think hiring Mess as OC was the beginning of the end. It also points to what is likely the biggest issue, personnel decisions. Imagine Sturdy as OC instead of Mess with Sturdy's pick for Oline coach instead of Klenakis.

Or losing Herman in the first place.

 

[Cycsk]

I vote for the Herman departure. And to make matters worse, didn't he leave for the QB assistant coach position and then later get promoted to the OC?

 

[Cycsk]

The tide really turned against Rhoads last year . . . so I also blame the incredible bad luck with injuries during 2013 and 2014.

 

[digZ]

Or losing Herman in the first place.

Funny that so many people have a great view of Herman now. I remember back when he first left people weren't that disappointed(until Mess took over). We even had great nick names for him saying he was "too smart for his own good", and calling him Tom "Mensa" Herman. It's funny how perspective can change people's view, even my own. I was a bit of a Herman hater when he first left, but in hindsight maybe he was the best thing for ISU at OC.

 

[swarthmoreCY]

I vote for the Herman departure. And to make matters worse, didn't he leave for the QB assistant coach position and then later get promoted to the OC?

No

 

[Cycsk]

Rhoads was doomed from the start when that ref with the Texas accent threw a flag when we made a hit coming off the bus!

 

[JRE1975]

The real beginning of the end was when the Big 12 started to fall apart. Harder schedule, talk about ISU having to move to the MAC when the Big 12 fell apart. there were a couple really bad recruiting classes and several good coaches bailed out.

This^^^

As demonstrated by how few contributing seniors we had this year.

 

[Cycsk]

No

I remember Ohio State in-laws making reference to it like in this blog:

http://www.elevenwarriors.com/2011/12/ohio-state-hires-iowa-state-oc-tom-herman


Sources are confirming FootballScoop.com's Thursday afternoon report that Urban Meyer has hired Iowa State offensive coordinator/quarterbacks coach Tom Herman. Herman is expected to replace Nick Siciliano as the quarterbacks coach at Ohio State.

 

[CyCloned]

I know we've struggled defending some of the high flying big12 teams, but am I the only one that thinks Wally has actually done well with what he gets to work with? And, I'm talking over several years, not just this season.

I agree for the most part. TT and OU really dominated ISUs defense, but they did a good enough job in 6 or 7 of the games to win games. He and the defense would have looked a lot better if the DBs didn't flat drop 1.8 interceptions a game.

 

[jdoggivjc]

8-27 started it; losses 26 and 27 ended it.

 

[clone99]

i would say 2-4 recruiting classes for him. they were horribly ranked nationally (even for ISU level). especially the current senior class that there are like 15 player if that left. losing the 3 defensive linemane 2 summers ago that really hurt also. a position that went from looking 2 years ago having some actual depth and experience, to losing 2 starters and creating no depth at a position ISU has struggled with for years

 

[NickTheGreat]

Messingham. I didn't really think Herman did that great of a job here, but gheesh. :twitcy:

 

[tsirnickesqcy]

I have to agree with those who say that the hire of Messingham to replace Hermann was he big moment that exhibited the decision making process of Paul Rhoades as being faulty. At the time (and even to this day) I could not understand why so many on this forum had a problem with Hermann. I also could not fathom why so many showed such broad support for Messingham (I felt his selection was a mistake from the moment I heard about it). I was willing to let it play out, because I've never been a football coach, nor even much of a player, but to me it didn't make sense. Now I think that those who bring up the conference realignment as a possible source for Iowa State to have poor recruiting seasons may also have a very valid point. Certainly the expected recruiting benefit from the win over OkState never materialized.

Here's something else I never understood: Didn't we have three QBs we worked with during Hermann's final season. None were very good. To me, one of those QBs in that season showed consistently that he managed the offense better than the others. Of course, he was also the guy who was probably at the most disadvantage due to his size and that his relative athletic ability was considerably less than the other two. Yet Jared Barnett was able to lead Iowa State to two great wins that season. The next season, he lead a smackdown of TCU. After that, he rarely saw the field. He transferred after 2012 despite his quite impressive list of victories as QB at Iowa State. I know he was undersized, and was unable to make consistent throws, yet he seemed to know how to manage the game and to help out his team mates. I interpret his departure as a sign of inner turmoil, and a notice from a somewhat successful QB that certain players cannot make headway at Iowa State despite proving competence.

I always wondered why Barnett wasn't given much of a chance. He was no Seneca Wallace but he did quarterback the team to some big wins.

 

[Wesley]

Memphis followed by Mess then Mark then excuses. When the team averaged 25 points a game, our fate was sealed.