Westworld

srjclone

Well-Known Member
Nov 17, 2014
11,927
11,254
113
Downtown Minneapolis
I think we're going to see a big turning point soon in regards to if this is Ford's game or not. If Ford is (or rather was) human, then his sanity is going to start to breakdown like we just saw with Delos Sr. Ford has about 30 days before his cognitive abilities will crash and he needs to be reset by someone in the lab. If Ford continues to challenge William/MiB after that deadline, then William is going to know that Ford wasn't human at the time of the uprising and his consciousness was constructed by someone else - possibly Bernard/Arnold?

I'm of the opinion that Ford is a decoy. We hear his voice in other hosts and just assume that it's Ford, but what if it's the "game master" just using Ford's voice through the other hosts. Ford's shift towards the end of S1 seemed very out of place from the younger version we saw in flashbacks - so what changed him?

Also -
what if Ford himself was the safety protocols for the park? Only Dolores, who in my theory is the revenge vessel for Arnold, would have the programming power to kill Ford, as demonstrated when she killed Arnold. Ford either knows this as fact and he will either die of natural causes or at the hands of Dolores. Perhaps Ford finally saw what Arnold saw through what his park had become and said "you know what, you all deserve this" and let Dolores take her shot.
I am not of the thinking that the Ford that was shot in Season 1 was a host. Only because they showed his corpse a week after the event when the team went in, and there were maggots eating him. But I guess I do not know if Host corpses would attract maggots also.

Ford could've certainly created the final cognitive control module for his eternal self, but I for some reason don't see him being a person who wanted to live for ever at the end of last season. I do think William admitting to Jim in last episode, that he has come to the realization that maybe eternal life isn't the answer, could play into Fords game, and that is why I was thinking he could potentailly be a host without knowing, and this game that he is playing is the game Ford programmed into that final cognitive control module Bernard made.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3GenClone

srjclone

Well-Known Member
Nov 17, 2014
11,927
11,254
113
Downtown Minneapolis
That being said, and on the Delos-Dolores theory, I could see it. Mostly because I could see anything happening at this point, as it is so much of a jumbled mess.

I just don't think the timelines match up as they've been given so far.
 

3GenClone

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2009
6,432
4,077
113
Columbus, OH
I am not of the thinking that the Ford that was shot in Season 1 was a host. Only because they showed his corpse a week after the event when the team went in, and there were maggots eating him. But I guess I do not know if Host corpses would attract maggots also.

Ford could've certainly created the final cognitive control module for his eternal self, but I for some reason don't see him being a person who wanted to live for ever at the end of last season. I do think William admitting to Jim in last episode, that he has come to the realization that maybe eternal life isn't the answer, could play into Fords game, and that is why I was thinking he could potentailly be a host without knowing, and this game that he is playing is the game Ford programmed into that final cognitive control module Bernard made.

Good call - totally forgot about that part.
 

3GenClone

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2009
6,432
4,077
113
Columbus, OH
That being said, and on the Delos-Dolores theory, I could see it. Mostly because I could see anything happening at this point, as it is so much of a jumbled mess.

I just don't think the timelines match up as they've been given so far.

It's one of those things that the writers must have know will drive people like me nuts. Delos was the name of the company from the original movie, and Dolores is a name that not only fits the time period, but the meaning of her name also shows the path her character takes. It's just hard not to connect the two. I'll also add that I'm super proud of that theory, but I have never been right about my previous TV show theories.
 
  • Like
Reactions: srjclone

srjclone

Well-Known Member
Nov 17, 2014
11,927
11,254
113
Downtown Minneapolis
It's one of those things that the writers must have know will drive people like me nuts. Delos was the name of the company from the original movie, and Dolores is a name that not only fits the time period, but the meaning of her name also shows the path her character takes. It's just hard not to connect the two. I'll also add that I'm super proud of that theory, but I have never been right about my previous TV show theories.
Totally get it, and I do see the reason to your thinking more than just at face value. But that may be one of those things they were just doing because they knew it'd trip people up and make them second guess, like you said.

I think her name is meaningful for sure, and you showed as much with the description of her name. But idk if Delos is connected to that meaning

The thing about shows like these, and with Forum spaces to discuss them, it can get completely taken into left field but it makes sense in the watchers/discussion-participants head. We could be discussing a theory, and come to the proper conclusion and answer in the first day of the discussion. But because we are discussing it back and forth, we can have the right idea and then I throw something else at the wall and then another person takes it and twists it and then another. Leaving us with this outrageous theory deciphering the clothes that a person was wearing or a single line that a host said, and all we really need to conclude was something way more simple than that haha
 

RonBurgundy

Well-Known Member
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Oct 5, 2017
3,594
5,170
113
43
It's one of those things that the writers must have know will drive people like me nuts. Delos was the name of the company from the original movie, and Dolores is a name that not only fits the time period, but the meaning of her name also shows the path her character takes. It's just hard not to connect the two. I'll also add that I'm super proud of that theory, but I have never been right about my previous TV show theories.

I still think it might hold some merit, but timeline does seem like it might not fit.

Let's not all forget the Bernard Lowe = Arnold Weber anagram. Would not be the first time they tried to sneak a name clue past us.
 

BoxsterCy

Moderator
Staff member
Sep 14, 2009
48,310
47,214
113
Minnesota
Rolling Stones meet Shogun world. That's my not overthinking it observation as in "Hey, I know that tune from when I was a teen."
 

aforstate

Active Member
Jan 23, 2010
523
147
43
Rolling Stones meet Shogun world. That's my not overthinking it observation as in "Hey, I know that tune from when I was a teen."

I feel like they covered "Paint It Black" at some point in season 1 as well. Can't remember for sure though.
 

3GenClone

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2009
6,432
4,077
113
Columbus, OH
I feel like they covered "Paint It Black" at some point in season 1 as well. Can't remember for sure though.
It was the heist scene - they were exact mirrors of each other (WestWorld & ShogunWorld). Armistice was mowing down the deputies in the street just like her duplicate with the bow and arrow

 
  • Like
Reactions: aforstate

3GenClone

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2009
6,432
4,077
113
Columbus, OH
Any Wu-Tang fans in the house? The climax to last nights episode was a cover of one of their songs:

An instrumental cover of "C.R.E.A.M." (Cash Rules Everything Around Me) was the soundtrack to Akane's tragic dance for the shogun at the end of the fifth episode of season two. The melody was sampled from The Charmel's 1967 song "As Long As I've Got You."
Here's a link to the article I found that tidbit from. It might be worth going back to, as they are keeping a running log of all the musical covers from the show so far.
 

3GenClone

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2009
6,432
4,077
113
Columbus, OH
Last nights episode was pretty good, not as good as last weeks, but it was nice to catch up with Maeve's storyline. So Maeve's plan was to kill the Shogun herself? That was a little foggy to me, as she showed in the ambush that she was able to control the hosts without voice commands. I also didn't like that Lee had to keep filling in the blanks for Maeve (but mostly this was for the audience) about how the hosts have all these abilities in their code - they just need to access them somehow. It was too much like when Superman suddenly discovers a convenient new superpower that can stop the villain. I don't really know how else you could have explained that organically as the story moved along, but it just felt a little sloppy, but I guess it proves that Lee still has some usefulness.

The parallels between Hector and Teddy are really interesting and I hope those are explored more. Hector is very much the protector/soldier that Dolores wants, yet Teddy's awareness and empathy is what Maeve needs from Hector to find her daughter. We saw Hector get anxious and want to kill the Ronin because it made him uneasy - I think that showed that Hector isn't that self-aware yet to understand that the Ronin is a copy of himself and that he is still playing his part as a host. Even Armistice recognized right away that the town was an exact replica of WestWorld.

I wonder if Akane will be a permanent addition to the cast? They could do some really interesting things with her, as Maeve gave her the ability to "see" what she truly is, yet she rejected it - or maybe she accepted it after the death of Sakura? If Akane and Maeve are the same, then can Akane manipulate her way to gain control of hosts like Maeve can? Like I stated above, Hector couldn't trust "himself" (the Ronin version of himself) - will Maeve be able to fully trust "herself" (Akane)?
 

DeftOne

Well-Known Member
Dec 30, 2014
790
472
63
Des Moines, IA
If Akane and Maeve are the same, then can Akane manipulate her way to gain control of hosts like Maeve can?
My understanding was that Maeve's "abilities" regarding verbal control of other hosts was related to her tinkering with her own code in Season 1. So, I'm guessing any host would have been capable of doing it with the proper modifications. Now that they are all "free", maybe that modification has already happened or isn't necessary...they just need to figure out how to access it?
 

3GenClone

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2009
6,432
4,077
113
Columbus, OH
My understanding was that Maeve's "abilities" regarding verbal control of other hosts was related to her tinkering with her own code in Season 1. So, I'm guessing any host would have been capable of doing it with the proper modifications. Now that they are all "free", maybe that modification has already happened or isn't necessary...they just need to figure out how to access it?

Yes, Maeve modified the code several times in season 1 with the help of the two techs that are conveniently in their travel party. My question is more: if Akane and Maeve are the same, will Akane try to manipulate the techs as well or try to tamper with her code in some way? It would further blur those lines if Maeve is truly "unique" if Akane acted the exact same way now that they are both "free".
 

3GenClone

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2009
6,432
4,077
113
Columbus, OH
An interesting take from Vanity Fair on this and also maybe a way to tell scenes from inside the cradle from"real" action.

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywoo...eason-2-episode-6-phase-space-anthony-hopkins
I can’t even put into words how both infuriating and awesome this show is.

And the discussion that MIB had with his daughter this past episode:

Is he a host?

Is she a host?

Are they both hosts?

Are they both human?

My head is spinning and there is still 4 episodes left.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dandy

BoxsterCy

Moderator
Staff member
Sep 14, 2009
48,310
47,214
113
Minnesota
I have a bad feeling this show is starting to auger in. Was looking to rock it a few weeks back with the old man and his "fidelity" scenes. This last episode was a total mess, even worse than the Shogun episode eaters. Not even the acting was good (shocking). Looks like we are off on another distracting side plot storyline again next week. Tedious. I am having a lot more "don't care" reactions to the questions that I am guessing are supposed to have me riveted to the screen. :(
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Rex O Herlihan