Vaccinations...what have you done for your kids?
- Thread starter JonDMiller
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Although I appreciate your thought out e-mail. The problem with your statement is the Autism MMR connection did exist. The MMR part of the vaccination wasn't the issue. The fact that the drug companies used the thimerasol preservative in the individual Measles, Mumps, and Rubella portions as well as cleaning the equipment with thimerasol upped the mercury in those shots to well over the recommended amount of Mercury. For children who have a disposition to not being able to handle high amounts of mercury, which a smaller percentage of the population, this can cause symptons of autism.
So, before you want to label the Autism people as crazy, educate yourself on the issue. Although Thimerasol is no longer in vaccinations, these groups want to make the rest of the country aware that this could happen to you unless you pay attention to what is going on.
Jon -
I hope you let Jan in on the fact that we are not at all debating the need for vaccinations. I would really like to see a credible, on-air discussion about the vaccine schedule and parental options regarding the process.
Based on the 12 pages here, it is clearly not a product issue, it's a process issue. This is the side we need to see discussed.
Unfortunately, I am sitting here in Norman, OK and I can't catch the Iowa shows on a regular basis.
I hope you let Jan in on the fact that we are not at all debating the need for vaccinations. I would really like to see a credible, on-air discussion about the vaccine schedule and parental options regarding the process.
Based on the 12 pages here, it is clearly not a product issue, it's a process issue. This is the side we need to see discussed.
Unfortunately, I am sitting here in Norman, OK and I can't catch the Iowa shows on a regular basis.
First of all, I am very well informed on the issue. I read commentaries by both sides, and I read the literature. As such, I’m well aware of what ingredient in the vaccines is said to cause autism. I can also say that there is absolutely no connection between thimerasol-containing vaccines (MMR or otherwise) and autism. There have been many studies studying the proposed link, largely at the urging of groups like Age of Autism. They have consistently come back negative. Just in the last 1-2 years, Age of Autism have lost high-ranking members (I believe members of the board) because the group refuses to acknowledge the scientific proof that there is no link between thimerosal and autism. In fact, there have been almost ten studies (the exact number escapes me at the moment) published since 2008 examining the diagnosis of autism before and after the removal of thimerosal from childhood vaccines. There was no decline, not even a blip. The protocol for least one of those studies was developed with the input of a major vaccine-autism proponent (I apologize, I can’t remember her name off the top of my head). When the results didn’t come back the way she wanted, she removed her name from the study. Just this Monday, the editor of the Age of Autism website (Dan Olmsted) lambasted the NYT for ‘hypocrisy.’ In the same issue, they published a story about the CDC’s new recommendations for children 6 months and older to receive the seasonal flu vaccine, and an op-ed about the dangers of mercury coming from coal power plants. The perceived hypocrisy stemmed from the presence of thimerosal (an organomercury compound) in the flu vaccine. Of course, what Olmsted failed to mention is that the only vaccine used for children aged 6-23 months contains no thimerosal. In addition, three of the flu vaccines for children aged 24-59 months are also thimerosal free. Speaking of misinformation. So yes, I knew exactly what I was saying when I made those comments in my original post, and I stand by them.
norseclone,
I can also sight you books on the subject by established scientists that disagree with everything you just said. So, who is telling the truth? Who did enough of the right studies with the correct focus groups? I have a child with autism because of a high amount of mercury inserted into his body due to the MMR vaccination. You can sight me studies. I can sight you a real person.
I can also sight you books on the subject by established scientists that disagree with everything you just said. So, who is telling the truth? Who did enough of the right studies with the correct focus groups? I have a child with autism because of a high amount of mercury inserted into his body due to the MMR vaccination. You can sight me studies. I can sight you a real person.
No offense, but have you considered the possibility your child was genetically programmed with autistic characteristics that just happened to rear its head the first few months of life and it had nothing to do with the immunizations?
Not trying to offend as I understand the challenges you have been faced with raising an autistic child, but I am on the other side of the fence on this issue and it seems like you are trying to correlate an event to the diagnosis rather than the possibility autism was there at birth.
I appreciate what you are saying and yes I have. The problem is, my son was performing above average in speech, movement, and good in eye contact. All of those things went down hill within 6 months of the vaccination to where he was unresponsive, and non verbal. So after checking medical records, doing research, talking to doctors and my wife and I came to this conclusion.
The major difference is I can cite studies that haven’t been discredited as a result of small sample size and/or poor methodology. Another difference is I can cite a study who’s protocols were designed with the direct and significant input of a proponent of the dissenting view. Also, I’m the only one that can cite studies that back up my position concerning the rate of autism diagnosis since thimerosal was removed from childhood vaccines (they haven’t changed). And last, just as an overarching comment, science is a consensus-building enterprise. That’s how it works. An individual has a hypothesis, designs an experiment/study, and tests it. The results and conclusions are then tested. Again and again and again and again. If the results are consistently reproducible, the hypothesis becomes accepted. During the course of the discovery process, there will be studies that disagree, whether because of poor protocols, dishonest researchers, or just dumb luck. But over the course of time, a consensus emerges based on the best evidence. To test something like the effects of a drug or a therapy, a study is needed, not anecdotal evidence based on one or a few individuals. Not only do you need a study, you need multiple studies approaching the question in different ways. And this is what happened in this case. And what happens in science all the time. That’s what makes the scientific method so powerful.
All of this is true. Also true is that additional testing of theory is done to identify other potential variables that may moderate or mediate the impact of certain treatments on the outcomes of the test. It is safe to assume that there are moderating variables (i.e. the interaction of Z with the treatment) that have yet to be identified when testing vaccinations. It's quite simple:
VACCINE A is negatively related to the development of DISEASE A (i.e. it works);
VACCINE A, in some cases is positively related to SIDE EFFECT A;
therefore, my hypothesis is that VACCINE A x VARIABLE Z is positively related to SIDE EFFECT A.
I want to know what VARIABLE Z is. Scientists don't know what it is. Re-testing VACCINE A over and over and over again will not produce SIDE EFFECT A, but VACCINE A may interact with something in my child and since I don't know if my child has VARIABLE Z, I am going to ensure that my child is always at full strength when exposed to VACCINE A.
My contention is that VACCINE A x VACCINE B x VACCINE C when TIME BETWEEN TREATMENTS is small increases the likelihood of SIDE EFFECT A. This has NOT been extensively tested.
Thank you for the science lesson, but it's not needed. Can you tell me why the CDC in that you so hopelessly quote issued a statement in 2000 stating a link between Autism and the MMR shot and then retracted in concern that people would stop taking the vaccination. If they thought their research was so solid, why issue the first statement.
I'm assuming in your wonderful studies you are ignoring the escalation numbers. Where are you getting your numbers? From the CDC or pharma, both have an invested interest in your side of things. Oh wait a minute what about the footnote that doctor's offices could use up the vaccines they had and then switch to thimerasol free shots. My son was born after the switch to thimerasol free shots, and yet I have the medical records to show he received the thimerasol shot. You can come in and think you know this whole topic, and try to prove me wrong.
But, don't you think that I would want to come to any other conclusion but me authorizing an MMR shot for my son and basically giving him Autism by proxy? Don't you think that I searched for any other reason that he was naturally going to be this way? It couldn't have been me saying yes give him that shot. I can't tell you the hours my wife and I have spent researching and finding a way to say it is something else. I could ignore the doctor's that told me I was right, and listen to you. But, I choose not too. You want to throw your studies up. I can do the same, and you are NOT the only one who can show proof.
We coudl keep talking about this, or you could accept the fact that maybe instances like this do occur and I'm not some parent who is looking for something to blame.
To add to what you are saying, it is not the MMR Vaccine that was causing the problem. It was the preservative that was used in the doses and in the cleansing material to cleam the machines. This peaked the mercury preservative to unhealthy point. So, when you make your example, there is an X factor to how the vaccine is mass produced.
This would be VARIABLE Z. I was just referring to some unknown condition. It could be in the child, the handling of the vaccine, preparation of the vaccine, or timing of the administration of the vaccine.
Had a good discussion with our Peeds Doc today. She was very open, very understanding...she said that they are getting more and more people asking, talking about schedules, etc...not just us locust eating Jenny McCarthy types 
Dr as much sided with us that we don't really need the rotovirus shot. We know if we need to take our kid to the hospital if she has been throwing up and crapping too much.
A few of Dr's answers however were programmed...because their only explanation was 'to keep the herd going'.
Umm...I guess I felt like I was in a bizarro world, where this took place: "Jon, you have to jump off the bridge because everyone else is."
Dr was comfortable with us declining shots today, and reading more into some things so that we can settle on a schedule that is fine for us.
Dr also said ( has been in Peeds 30 years) that "well, if you wait until they are two, then they will have 1/3 as many shots.'
Not scolding, not outrage, not you are crazy. None of that. Which I appreciated. We didn't even suggest we would wait until she was two.
So I was a little surprised...pleasantly so.
(ENTER: SHE IS A QUACK! SHE DOESNT KNOW WHAT SHE IS DOING comments
Dr as much sided with us that we don't really need the rotovirus shot. We know if we need to take our kid to the hospital if she has been throwing up and crapping too much.
A few of Dr's answers however were programmed...because their only explanation was 'to keep the herd going'.
Umm...I guess I felt like I was in a bizarro world, where this took place: "Jon, you have to jump off the bridge because everyone else is."
Dr was comfortable with us declining shots today, and reading more into some things so that we can settle on a schedule that is fine for us.
Dr also said ( has been in Peeds 30 years) that "well, if you wait until they are two, then they will have 1/3 as many shots.'
Not scolding, not outrage, not you are crazy. None of that. Which I appreciated. We didn't even suggest we would wait until she was two.
So I was a little surprised...pleasantly so.
(ENTER: SHE IS A QUACK! SHE DOESNT KNOW WHAT SHE IS DOING comments
