Upgrading the Hockey Program Makes More Sense Than Bringing Back Baseball

[CrossCyed]

Don't get me wrong, I love baseball too. I just think hockey could bring in money and maybe one day help bring the baseball program with it.

No it wouldn't. Hockey at Iowa State would never bring in money.

 

[jbhtexas]

Yes indeedy, they actually played in the Big 8 conference and there are banners up in the ice arena to prove it. Mens ice hockey was one the first Title 9 casualites IIRC.

From what I can tell, for the past 40 years, ISU hockey has been a member of CSCHL/AHCA, and never NCAA. Also, I can't find any record of the Big 8 sponsoring NCAA hockey.

 

[hurdleisu24]

I don't know if it would make money at Iowa State. It'd be far from a guarantee and you'd need a few succesful seasons. It has to be making money at places like Minnesota though. Track doesn't make money anywhere, although I do see the point that from a prestige standpoint it is important to try and get those facilities back up to par.

Honestly, I just think that if JP did trip over a pot of gold or something that College Hockey would be enough of a novelty in Iowa that you could build a fanbase fairly quickly. It would be something that no other school in the state had and that could be key in snagging some converts.

You are wrong in the fact that track doesn't make money anywhere. We make a legitimate amount of our outdoor travel money from entry fees to our indoor meets. When it costs a couple hundred dollars to enter a team and we have over 60 teams for a couple meets, that's a bit of dough. Granted it doesn't cover all the costs but think of the what we could make for an outdoor meet too. It would only help in making track closer to self sufficient.

 

[CrossCyed]

You are wrong in the fact that track doesn't make money anywhere. We make a legitimate amount of our outdoor travel money from entry fees to our indoor meets. When it costs a couple hundred dollars to enter a team and we have over 60 teams for a couple meets, that's a bit of dough. Granted it doesn't cover all the costs but think of the what we could make for an outdoor meet too. It would only help in making track closer to self sufficient.

There's only two revenue sports out there, anything else isn't going to be self sufficient.

 

[hurdleisu24]

There's only two revenue sports out there, anything else isn't going to be self sufficient.

That's why I said closer to self sufficient. That's the goal of every "non-revanue" team.

 

[MNCyGuy]

You are wrong in the fact that track doesn't make money anywhere. We make a legitimate amount of our outdoor travel money from entry fees to our indoor meets. When it costs a couple hundred dollars to enter a team and we have over 60 teams for a couple meets, that's a bit of dough. Granted it doesn't cover all the costs but think of the what we could make for an outdoor meet too. It would only help in making track closer to self sufficient.

Interesting. It didn't occur to me that in a sport that had big invite meets like that (because I'm assuming you make no money off of in-conference duals) that entry fees would generate that kind of revenue.

 

[cybsball20]

One thing that alot of you don't consider is that the alumni of these sports are more likely than your average alum to come back and donate money in the future. In fact, I am guessing if you look at the NCC and Letterwinners Clubs, that baseball has more donors than probably any sport other than football (which is probably pretty close).

 

[hurdleisu24]

Interesting. It didn't occur to me that in a sport that had big invite meets like that (because I'm assuming you make no money off of in-conference duals) that entry fees would generate that kind of revenue.

Actually there is only one scored meet besides conference. All of the other meets are invite/all comers meets. I believe there were 5 collegiet meets and 2 high school meets. All of the officials are volunteers. They don't charge admission currently but there is hope that with they new rec they will be able to start that.

 

[GoShow97]

In some recent posts on this message board, people are talking about bringing back the baseball program to ISU, as the ISU Athletic Dept., probably, is getting up to ten more million dollars per year with the new TV deal through the reformed Big 12 conference. I'm doubtful that baseball will be brought back -- why? Here are my reasons:

• The collegiate baseball season starts in February when there still is a strong possibility of below zero temperatures in Ames. Yes, February is still the dead of Winter here in Iowa. Not practical to play baseball here during Winter weather. The NCAA isn't about to change when the season starts so long as the southern teams have their way.
• ISU does not have the facilities to be competitive in baseball and would have to massively spend money in upgrading them.
• The ISU baseball team never had the attendance it needed to be a viable varsity sport. Most crowds at Cap Timm Field were, at most, two or three dozen rarely breaking a hundred. The Ames High baseball team frequently draws larger crowds at Brookside Park. BTW, ISU attendance for baseball games was free of charge.

Here are my reasons why upgrading the Cyclone ice hockey team to varsity status makes more sense:

• Iowa is a cold weather state and the October through March season coincides with our cold weather time.
• ISU has facilities in place to be a competitive hockey program. Hilton Coliseum is a fantastic place to see a hockey game. I know this from personal experience as I watched hockey games at Hilton when the ACHA championships were held there some years back. The Ames/ISU Ice Arena offers a ready made practice facility. All there needs to be added is a dedicated weight room at the ice arena, and offices in the Athletic Dept. office space in the Jacobsen Building.
• For a club program, the ISU hockey team has fantastic attendance almost always exceeding 1,000 and often filling the ice arena to capacity of about 2,100. If the games are held at Hilton, I'm sure attendance will only go up as other marquee programs play ISU such as Minnesota and Wisconsin.

The likely association (conference) the Cyclone hockey team will end up in will be the Western Collegiate Hockey Association (WCHA) if upgraded. This league's current membership comprises of:

• University of Minnesota
• University of Wisconsin
• U of Minn, Duluth
• Minnesota State University
• University of North Dakota
• St. Cloud State University
• Denver University
• University of Alaska at Anchorage
• Colorado College
• Michigan Technical University (who dat?)

For most of these teams, the ice hockey program is their pride and joy, so they will bring fairly large followings to Ames for home games. ISU owns a wonderful reputation in ice hockey thanks to Dr. Alan Murdoch, AKA "Dr. Hockey", the hockey team coaching staff, and the cooperation of the Ames Convention and Visitors Bureau. Yeah, the team would have to travel to Anchorage, Alaska once a year, otherwise, with so many teams in neighboring states, travel should not be a problem. With all these positives vis-a-vis baseball, I really believe ice hockey is the sport to add if the ISU Athletic Dept. should choose to expand.

Still, the hockey team will need help in reaching varsity status from sources other than the Athletic Dept. Large donors will be needed in order to show there is viable support for a varsity hockey program. Instead of trying to field a professional hockey team in Central Iowa, why not take advantage of Iowans' love of college sports and fund the upgrade of the Cyclone hockey program? I would have no problem trading some games with Wells Fargo Arena as home ice instead of Hilton if that is what would be needed in order for this upgrade to happen. There is an already established passionate following for Cyclone hockey and, if they are successful, that following can only expand. Otherwise, the hockey association in Des Moines could just donate the money and take the tax break. The ice hockey team is one the few championship traditions at ISU. Why not feature this tradition?

I'm doubtful that hockey will be made a varsity sport at ISU. why? Here is my reason: Gender equity.

 

[jbhtexas]

I'm doubtful that hockey will be made a varsity sport at ISU. why? Here is my reason: Gender equity.

According to this post, which nobody disputed,

http://www.cyclonefanatic.com/forum/wrestling/93727-big-12-wrestling-expansion.html#post1774527

ISU can add 15-20 men's scholarships without adding any more womens' scholarships. I believe ADJP has mentioned this in the past.

According to the NCAA link I posted earlier in this thread, for FBS schools, the average number of scholarships awarded for baseball is 11.6, and 18.0 for hockey. For baseball, athletic aid is provided for 31 students, while for hockey, athletic aid is provided for 22. So ISU could potentially add either sport without having to add a women's sport.

It seems that for baseball, more partial scholarships are given???

If that NCAA report is correct, as far as yearly scholarships and yearly budget, ISU could add both baseball and men's tennis for the "cost" of ice hockey. This does not include the cost of initial facilities.

 

[loki8838]

I would like to see a list of exactly how many NCAA hockey programs make money. Same for baseball.
You have to win - I know that. Fans will not turn out otherwise. Example: No program in NCAA hockey has any more tradition than Michigan State, and they also have a great arena. Yet they have declined the last couple of years, and Munn Arena in East Lansing was half-full this year, even against Michigan.

The folks at Minnesota, Michigan, Denver, North Dakota, Wisconsin, Boston College, Boston University, Maine, and Colorado College would highly disagree with this statement, along with a handful of other schools.

You could make a legitimate argument that Michigan St isn't even in the top 3 in the state of Michigan. Michigan (9 titles) has 3 times as many NCAA titles in hockey than Michigan St (3 titles), while Michigan Tech and Lake Superior St also have 3 titles.

Sorry to take this off topic, but a statement that laughable cannot be ignored.

 

[jdoggivjc]

According to this post, which nobody disputed,

http://www.cyclonefanatic.com/forum/wrestling/93727-big-12-wrestling-expansion.html#post1774527

ISU can add 15-20 men's scholarships without adding any more womens' scholarships. I believe ADJP has mentioned this in the past.

According to the NCAA link I posted earlier in this thread, for FBS schools, the average number of scholarships awarded for baseball is 11.6, and 18.0 for hockey. For baseball, athletic aid is provided for 31 students, while for hockey, athletic aid is provided for 22. So ISU could potentially add either sport without having to add a women's sport.

It seems that for baseball, more partial scholarships are given???

If that NCAA report is correct, as far as yearly scholarships and yearly budget, ISU could add both baseball and men's tennis for the "cost" of ice hockey. This does not include the cost of initial facilities.

Yet 10 posts from now someone's going to bring up Title IX as the reason why ISU will never add another sport again...

 

[MNCyGuy]

I'm doubtful that hockey will be made a varsity sport at ISU. why? Here is my reason: Gender equity.

List of things JP apparently needs to have a weekly press conference about:

-additional sports not being an issue with Title IX.
-assurances that he is actually doing something about something
-bowling in the south end zone
-???

 

[CrossCyed]

List of things JP apparently needs to have a weekly press conference about:

-additional sports not being an issue with Title IX.
-assurances that he is actually doing something about something
-bowling in the south end zone
-???

You forgot about Jeff Grayer's position with the MBB team.

 

[MNCyGuy]

You forgot about Jeff Grayer's position with the MBB team.

yep, good call

 

[simply1]

Given the season, and early road travel, baseball would be nice but most certainly a loser.

 

[Al_4_State]

If Iowa State ever added hockey as a D-I sport over baseball I'd quit giving my money to the university.

I'm 100% the other way. I'd be a hockey season ticket holder from Day 1, and would likely up my donation level as much as possible.

If I'm ever in position to be a very, very large donor, I will earmark funds to create ISU Hockey.

 

[HiltonMagic]

I'm 100% the other way. I'd be a hockey season ticket holder from Day 1, and would likely up my donation level as much as possible.

If I'm ever in position to be a very, very large donor, I will earmark funds to create ISU Hockey.

If you're in position to donate millions for hockey, I hope you donate to FB & BB first.

 

[Stumpy]

Yes indeedy, they actually played in the Big 8 conference and there are banners up in the ice arena to prove it. Mens ice hockey was one the first Title 9 casualites IIRC.

No. Murdoch came to Iowa State in 1969, founded Cyclone Hockey that year, helped found the Central States Collegiate Hockey League the next year, helped found the American Collegiate Hockey Association in 1991, and still coaches the team. Hockey at Iowa State has never been varsity.

 

[simply1]

I want to be rich so I can be the t boone pickens for ISU, see it's a win/win for all of us..