This is why Prohm must go........

[CascadeClone]

3PT - ISU 6-26, iowa 10-28

FT - ISU 4-7, iowa 18-20

Steve Prohm - 0 minutes, DNP (coach's decision)

I don't understand this argument - since he doesn't play he has no responsibility?

He is the coach -- it's ALL his responsibility, from recruiting, to player development, to game plan, to in-game adjustments, et al.

If it was one game where they had a bad shooting night, and lost, then yes, that's not on him. But that isn't the problem. The issues (imho) are the continuing lack of offensive coherence and in-game tactical failures - this has been a thing during CSP's entire tenure here. Those have nothing to do with poor shooting, and they exist in both losses and wins.

 

[Halincandenza]

Prohm is just too slow to adjust in different ways, whether it is starting lineup or rotations or in game changes etc. He is very stubborn but also seems to realize this and then will apologize or say I should have done 'x' sooner etc.

 

[moores2]

I think Prohm is digging really deep into NBA playbooks. You see him like stuff all over on Twitter. Sometimes getting too detailed can be really bad. Better to do 5 things really really well than 20 different sets.

 

[xboxfever]

I think Prohm is digging really deep into NBA playbooks. You see him like stuff all over on Twitter. Sometimes getting too detailed can be really bad. Better to do 5 things really really well than 20 different sets.

They don’t run any sets though. A Prohm coached ISU team has ran exactly one play his entire tenure. The play is have 4 guys stand around the arc and have the one post player come up and do a simple ball screen and hope the guy with the ball can either get to the basket, kick it back to the screener, or hope for a double team from a defender guarding the three point line. That’s it. That’s the only half court play ISU has ran in 5 years under Prohm. His offense is create your own offense essentially. When his teams run the fast break or go fast, that’s when they go on runs and score in bunches. The problem is he’s always calling for his teams to slow it down and run the half court.

 

[Cat Stevens]

What top ranked class?

This is an interesting schtick you have attained. Kind of a cross between trying to be the smartest guy in the room like swarthy and melt down negative like clone dude.

I didn’t think people could possibly be both, but you’re trying.


this is next year. This year they’re top 20 as well.
https://247sports.com/college/wisconsin/Season/2021-Basketball/Commits/

 

[moores2]

They don’t run any sets though. A Prohm coached ISU team has ran exactly one play his entire tenure. The play is have 4 guys stand around the arc and have the one post player come up and do a simple ball screen and hope the guy with the ball can either get to the basket, kick it back to the screener, or hope for a double team from a defender guarding the three point line. That’s it. That’s the only half court play ISU has ran in 5 years under Prohm. His offense is create your own offense essentially. When his teams run the fast break or go fast, that’s when they go on runs and score in bunches. The problem is he’s always calling for his teams to slow it down and run the half court.

So the clear out play for Wigginton? What about the play for Grill where he got a dribble handoff at the elbow and turned the corner for almost a huge slam if he didn't trip. Yes, these last couple games was pretty much Haliburton pick and rolls, but you are wrong. There are set plays in this offense.

Baseline runner is technically a set play and we run that all the time.

Really really good set plays look like create your own offense. Any time you see 2 bigs set screens at the top of the key? Set Play.

 

[Gerbs]

This is an interesting schtick you have attained. Kind of a cross between trying to be the smartest guy in the room like swarthy and melt down negative like clone dude.

I didn’t think people could possibly be both, but you’re trying.


this is next year. This year they’re top 20 as well.
https://247sports.com/college/wisconsin/Season/2021-Basketball/Commits/

Steve is so lucky to have a friend like you

 

[allfourcy]

I've watched ISU every game and watch a lot of other conferences' games too. Example: yesterday Nebr was running basically the same spread offense. (And NO, this is not an 'about Hoiberg' post.) A pt. guard or another penetrated, while 4 guys stood on perimeter spacing the floor ...or they drove to the hoop on a close out then dished. And repeated. How did a team who has been beaten by some low mid majors and Creighton by over 20, beat Purdue? Well, because they made SHOTS... 11 threes. Purdue had less turnovers, more shots, and out rebounded them. But Nebr finally made shots. Watching a few of their earlier games made me believe they were really bad shooters. Plus, they did play aggressive tough defense.
I do feel our lack of ability to make shots is a much bigger factor than what offense we're running. You can find plenty of other teams as examples that pretty much do the same thing offensively as we do. Perhaps there is more POST feeding however. It's like I almost wish Bolton was the point guard (as he plays best going to the hoop vs. those ugly 3's he takes) and Tyrese was the '4' man. He shoots, would be a great mismatch against another teams front court, rebounds well, and still could penetrate to the hoop or have plays run thru him. BUT..I realize that is impossible tho, as Tyrese is our best passer, best pick and roll guy, and will play that position in the NBA.
Just think some fans are being over critical of Prohm as far as the 'what we run' aspect. If we could make shots and rebound, a lot of things would magically look differently. But you have to work with what you have. Lets hope there are more gritty Seton Hall defensive performances and more Alabama offensive performances in the near future.

 

[moores2]

I've watched ISU every game and watch a lot of other conferences' games too. Example: yesterday Nebr was running basically the same spread offense. (And NO, this is not an 'about Hoiberg' post.) A pt. guard or another penetrated, while 4 guys stood on perimeter spacing the floor ...or they drove to the hoop on a close out then dished. And repeated. How did a team who has been beaten by some low mid majors and Creighton by over 20, beat Purdue? Well, because they made SHOTS... 11 threes. Purdue had less turnovers, more shots, and out rebounded them. But Nebr finally made shots. Watching a few of their earlier games made me believe they were really bad shooters. Plus, they did play aggressive tough defense.
I do feel our lack of ability to make shots is a much bigger factor than what offense we're running. You can find plenty of other teams as examples that pretty much do the same thing offensively as we do. Perhaps there is more POST feeding however. It's like I almost wish Bolton was the point guard (as he plays best going to the hoop vs. those ugly 3's he takes) and Tyrese was the '4' man. He shoots, would be a great mismatch against another teams front court, rebounds well, and still could penetrate to the hoop or have plays run thru him. BUT..I realize that is impossible tho, as Tyrese is our best passer, best pick and roll guy, and will play that position in the NBA.
Just think some fans are being over critical of Prohm as far as the 'what we run' aspect. If we could make shots and rebound, a lot of things would magically look differently. But you have to work with what you have. Lets hope there are more gritty Seton Hall defensive performances and more Alabama offensive performances in the near future.

I have no problem in what plays we run, I have a problem taking 10 or more seconds of shot clock getting in the right position to run something. Then when we don't get it and go to motion, guys who have not been successful 3 point shooters stick behind the line rather than making hard cuts, or passing the ball into the paint to a big man with a little man on him.

 

[Snyder21]

Steve Kerr doesn't yell at his players. When he had 5 All Stars, he was a generational great on his way to the Hall of Fame. Now that he has a starting lineup of bums, they are headed to a Top 5 pick in the draft.

Gotta get better players or the fans start making up silly reasons to roll someone's head.

I understand your point but Kerr will call his player's out. He can be very intense as a coach. Same with Brad Stevens. It's not their personality type but they use it as a tool occasionally.

And we need to understand there is a difference between grown men who are professionals, and young men who are college athletes. I think college athletes need to be lit into when they make a mistake on occasion. Prohm needs to bring energy and direction and it seems like more often than not he looks confused in those situations.

 

[Macloney]

I don't understand this argument - since he doesn't play he has no responsibility?

He is the coach -- it's ALL his responsibility, from recruiting, to player development, to game plan, to in-game adjustments, et al.

If it was one game where they had a bad shooting night, and lost, then yes, that's not on him. But that isn't the problem. The issues (imho) are the continuing lack of offensive coherence and in-game tactical failures - this has been a thing during CSP's entire tenure here. Those have nothing to do with poor shooting, and they exist in both losses and wins.

Yes, that is your opinion.

 

[SolarGarlic]

I've watched ISU every game and watch a lot of other conferences' games too. Example: yesterday Nebr was running basically the same spread offense. (And NO, this is not an 'about Hoiberg' post.) A pt. guard or another penetrated, while 4 guys stood on perimeter spacing the floor ...or they drove to the hoop on a close out then dished. And repeated. How did a team who has been beaten by some low mid majors and Creighton by over 20, beat Purdue? Well, because they made SHOTS... 11 threes. Purdue had less turnovers, more shots, and out rebounded them. But Nebr finally made shots. Watching a few of their earlier games made me believe they were really bad shooters. Plus, they did play aggressive tough defense.
I do feel our lack of ability to make shots is a much bigger factor than what offense we're running. You can find plenty of other teams as examples that pretty much do the same thing offensively as we do. Perhaps there is more POST feeding however. It's like I almost wish Bolton was the point guard (as he plays best going to the hoop vs. those ugly 3's he takes) and Tyrese was the '4' man. He shoots, would be a great mismatch against another teams front court, rebounds well, and still could penetrate to the hoop or have plays run thru him. BUT..I realize that is impossible tho, as Tyrese is our best passer, best pick and roll guy, and will play that position in the NBA.
Just think some fans are being over critical of Prohm as far as the 'what we run' aspect. If we could make shots and rebound, a lot of things would magically look differently. But you have to work with what you have. Lets hope there are more gritty Seton Hall defensive performances and more Alabama offensive performances in the near future.

We're not getting good outside shots. A lot of them are off the dribble or 6 feet behind the line or contested or all three. If you can't get open with Haliburton driving and dishing, you're likely standing and watching. Relocation on post feeds and drives are the easiest ways to get open. Nixon and Bolton are usually just watching. At least Lewis understands when to cut. He gets layups in these situation quite a bit.

 

[madguy30]

You may be right, however I'd much rather CSP be putting the losses on him than throwing his team under the bus like you constantly saw Frost doing this season at Nebraska.

I'm not saying it's wrong for Prohm to take the onus on the situations...I'm saying this is a trend and the things that he claims a need to be better at, don't appear to get all that much better season to season.

I would have thought that after 2017 when he admitted that he said Young should have been starting earlier in the season, that the lesson would be implemented. Instead, the next season, while a rebuilding year, started out featuring Donovan Jackson running the point when it was clear as day that NWB was a better fit, and DJ was a better fit from the 2.

 

[Cat Stevens]

R ok

Steve is so lucky to have a friend like you

you mean someone that actually supports the people that represent my school, rather than people like you?


Ok, I guess

 

[Cat Stevens]

I'm not saying it's wrong for Prohm to take the onus on the situations...I'm saying this is a trend and the things that he claims a need to be better at, don't appear to get all that much better season to season.

I would have thought that after 2017 when he admitted that he said Young should have been starting earlier in the season, that the lesson would be implemented. Instead, the next season, while a rebuilding year, started out featuring Donovan Jackson running the point when it was clear as day that NWB was a better fit, and DJ was a better fit from the 2.

You mean he was trying to help a players draft stock? That’s crazy.

 

[VeloClone]

mid they went 0-18 and won the tournament it would still be a good year and we would go dancing!

Maybe. Would still need to win a play in game to go dancing.

 

[rochclone]

I think Prohm is digging really deep into NBA playbooks. You see him like stuff all over on Twitter. Sometimes getting too detailed can be really bad. Better to do 5 things really really well than 20 different sets.

Are we talking about the same guy.

I've watched ISU every game and watch a lot of other conferences' games too. Example: yesterday Nebr was running basically the same spread offense. (And NO, this is not an 'about Hoiberg' post.) A pt. guard or another penetrated, while 4 guys stood on perimeter spacing the floor ...or they drove to the hoop on a close out then dished. And repeated. How did a team who has been beaten by some low mid majors and Creighton by over 20, beat Purdue? Well, because they made SHOTS... 11 threes. Purdue had less turnovers, more shots, and out rebounded them. But Nebr finally made shots. Watching a few of their earlier games made me believe they were really bad shooters. Plus, they did play aggressive tough defense.
I do feel our lack of ability to make shots is a much bigger factor than what offense we're running. You can find plenty of other teams as examples that pretty much do the same thing offensively as we do. Perhaps there is more POST feeding however. It's like I almost wish Bolton was the point guard (as he plays best going to the hoop vs. those ugly 3's he takes) and Tyrese was the '4' man. He shoots, would be a great mismatch against another teams front court, rebounds well, and still could penetrate to the hoop or have plays run thru him. BUT..I realize that is impossible tho, as Tyrese is our best passer, best pick and roll guy, and will play that position in the NBA.
Just think some fans are being over critical of Prohm as far as the 'what we run' aspect. If we could make shots and rebound, a lot of things would magically look differently. But you have to work with what you have. Lets hope there are more gritty Seton Hall defensive performances and more Alabama offensive performances in the near future.

The purpose behind running a "set" is generally to move the defense. You can run a "set" or "motion" but everything is dependent on ball reversal. We don't have enough it. Slowly passing the ball around the perimeter before ultimately running a pick n roll with 10 seconds isn't good offense even if it results in a made shot. The screen and re-screen that we occasionally run doesn't really move the entire defense although it will occasionally get a mismatch with Tyrese which is favorable.

Watch what Kansas, West Virginia or Kansas State run within their offensive sets. KSU (Webber) is a heavy coached involved offense with him calling a set nearly 80-85% of the time. WVU (Huggins) is a bit more lenient but the triangle they run from free-throw line to baseline is extremely effective and moves the defense making them defend through constant screens in a small area. Kansas (Self) runs some variations of "Chop" but that has plenty of actions and deviations. But it all starts with making the defense move and defend. We don't do a ton of that. The baseline runner that CSP started in the 2nd half of Monte's senior season can be effective but you need a guard that can hit the mid-range, is a good decision maker and then other perimeter shooters. We have 2/3 of that equation right now. Outside of baseline runner, pick'n'roll and screen/re-screen game I'm not seeing a lot of actions for Iowa State on a consistent basis. If there are other actions then give me some examples but generally not a lot of movement on the offensive end which is different from what I see with other Big 12 squads.

 

[Tre4ISU]

When's he getting fired? I'm sick of waiting.

 

[Statefan10]

When's he getting fired? I'm sick of waiting.

If it were up to some fans he'd been fired before taking the job 5 years ago.

 

[rochclone]

You mean he was trying to help a players draft stock? That’s crazy.

I don't believe that is the primary goal of a college coach. If it can be accommodated within the goals of the team then by all means. However, CSP struggles with the ability to simply say this isn't going to work from the jump....rather he lets the kids fail at doing it their way and then says okay are we ready to do it "this way." I absolutely think there is a time and place for that, however everybody could see that DJ wasn't going to be the point guard, that Solomon Young needed to be in the starting line (2016-17) and that Conditt needs to start (this year). The fact that these decisions need to percolate for 10 games before we pull the trigger gets a bit old. I'm not sure if that is a confidence/confrontational issue with CSP but I somehow don't think Bill Self would have let Donovan have the reins for three-four games before making that change.