Rewriting History (aka Spin)

[alaskaguy]

Did anyone watch Fox News on Sunday?

Karl Rove was interviewed. Mr. Rove claimed that Congress rushed the vote on the Iraqi war over the administration’s objection.

Separately, Bill Clinton is claiming that he "opposed the war from the beginning."

 

[brianhos]

Both of those statements are out and out lies. I love politicians.

 

[Stormin]

Did anyone watch Fox News on Sunday?

Karl Rove was interviewed. Mr. Rove claimed that Congress rushed the vote on the Iraqi war over the administration’s objection.

Separately, Bill Clinton is claiming that he "opposed the war from the beginning."

It was interesting that after Rove's comments that it was Congress rushing to vote on Iraq, that they showed that it was actually Bush pushing for Congress to vote for the Iraq resolution.

You should never use truth and Karl Rove in the same sentence.

 

[Stormin]

Bill Clinton may be able to make the claim that he was against the war from the beginning. But Hillary can't.

 

[iceclone]

It was interesting that after Rove's comments that it was Congress rushing to vote on Iraq, that they showed that it was actually Bush pushing for Congress to vote for the Iraq resolution.

You should never use truth and Karl Rove in the same sentence.

Rove has never had much time for truth, but this time it was unusually ridiculous.

Bill Clinton may be able to make the claim that he was against the war from the beginning. But Hillary can't.

B. Clinton is on record as being for the war. His words, his voice, and his lips moving in synchronization to those words. It is pretty indisputable.

 

[keepngoal]

B. Clinton is on record as being for the war. His words, his voice, and his lips moving in synchronization to those words. It is pretty indisputable.

Yep. IMO, he is the definition of a chicken hawk. Who is all 'for' the military in peace time but we can never use force that could be a tough drawn out fight.

- keep.

 

[Stormin]

Yep. IMO, he is the definition of a chicken hawk. Who is all 'for' the military in peace time but we can never use force that could be a tough drawn out fight.

- keep.

Cheney is my definition of a chicken ****. Used about a half dozen deferments to get out of military service to this country. Definitely went out of his way to make sure he wouldn't get drafted.

 

[Incyte]

Bill Clinton may be able to make the claim that he was against the war from the beginning.

No he can't, he's on record.

 

[alaskaguy]

Cheney is my definition of a chicken ****. Used about a half dozen deferments to get out of military service to this country. Definitely went out of his way to make sure he wouldn't get drafted.

Stormin do you have an infatuation with **** Chaney? Is **** Chaney to blame for every major problem our country faces?

 

[jdoggivjc]

After the debacle in Somalia (so bad they made a movie out of it) and the former Yugoslavia (tell me what possible interest we possibly could have had being in there and what all we actually did over there), I think Bill Clinton has no right to say anything about what's going on in Iraq.

 

[herbiedoobie]

After the debacle in Somalia (so bad they made a movie out of it) and the former Yugoslavia (tell me what possible interest we possibly could have had being in there and what all we actually did over there), I think Bill Clinton has no right to say anything about what's going on in Iraq.

But he will. It's his nature.

 

[Incyte]

Stormin do you have an infatuation with **** Chaney?

Oh boy, here we go. I'm betting we'll see a reponse with lots of bolded words like "lie," "cheat," "florida debacle," "privacy," "oil," "Haliburton," "leak," "rich," "croonies," etc..

 

[Stormin]

Stormin do you have an infatuation with **** Chaney? Is **** Chaney to blame for every major problem our country faces?

Never heard of **** Chaney. Who is he? LOL Seriously, I have no more of an infatuation with **** Cheney than the rest of you have with Bill Clinton. Bill Clinton was referred to as a chicken hawk. Fair enough. I referred to **** Cheney as a chicken **** as evidenced by his numerous deferments to get out of military service and avoid the draft.

I don't blame **** Cheney for every major problem our country faces. I do blame **** Cheney for continuously lying to the American people about Iraq's role in 9/11. I do blame **** Cheney for trying to mislead the American people to War with Iraq by making misleading statements and distorting facts and information (i.e. LYING). IMHO Cheney is the worst Vice President in the History of the United States as well as the most influential. GW Bush is the worst President in United States history.

 

[jdoggivjc]

Never heard of **** Chaney. Who is he? LOL Seriously, I have no more of an infatuation with **** Cheney than the rest of you have with Bill Clinton. Bill Clinton was referred to as a chicken hawk. Fair enough. I referred to **** Cheney as a chicken **** as evidenced by his numerous deferments to get out of military service and avoid the draft.

I don't blame **** Cheney for every major problem our country faces. I do blame **** Cheney for continuously lying to the American people about Iraq's role in 9/11. I do blame **** Cheney for trying to mislead the American people to War with Iraq by making misleading statements and distorting facts and information (i.e. LYING). IMHO Cheney is the worst Vice President in the History of the United States as well as the most influential. GW Bush is the worst President in United States history.

I wish people would get off this whole "worst President in history" thing, as it's simply not true. I'd argue that both Nixon and Hoover were much worse than Bush. Nixon had the whole Watergate scandal and the impeachment (something liberals could only dream would happen to Bush - but it's not going to happen), and although he didn't start the Vietnam War, his mismanagement of it and his failure bring the thing to a peaceful end really turned up the heat of the anti-war protests (plus the death of 60,000+ American soldiers in Vietnam compared to the 4,000+ in Iraq). Herbert Hoover only led us straight down the path from economic prosperity to the great depression (sure, the mechanisms were in place for the market to crash before Hoover was in office, but he gets the blame, much like Clinton gets the praise for the economy in the late '90s although it was due to the internet and e-commerce, and Bush gets the blame for the recession in the early '00s although 9/11 and cycling down from the artificial highs from the e-commerce boom were really to blame). Hoover and Nixon were much worse presidents than Bush has been. The difference is Hoover was president 80 years ago, Nixon 40. Nobody remembers how bad they really are. The problem with everyone who wants to spout that Bush is the "worst president ever" is that they don't realize there are likely MANY presidents that were likely much worse than Bush - but that fact means they can't spout their hate of the president in that way. I guarantee 20-40 years from now nobody's going to consider Bush to be the worst president ever simply because the fires of controversy and the irrationality that goes with it will have died down and we'll be dealing with the controversies of the presidents of that time. 20-40 years from now Bush is just going to be remembered as no worse than a former President of the United States.

 

[alaskaguy]

I'm old enough to remember Nixon quite well and wouldn't include him on my worst list. Ditto for Hebert Hoover, even though I have to rely on historical archives to make such a judgement.

During my lifetime I'm convinced the worst award was "earned" by LBJ.

 

[Stormin]

I'm old enough to remember Nixon quite well and wouldn't include him on my worst list. Ditto for Hebert Hoover, even though I have to rely on historical archives to make such a judgement.

During my lifetime I'm convinced the worst award was "earned" by LBJ.

Fair enough. But in doing a Google search under "Worst President Ever" George W. Bush's name keeps popping up. And in the best cases he is listed as "one of the worst but not the worst."

It is all opinion. IMHO GW Bush is the worst President ever. And probably the most dangerous.

 

[jdoggivjc]

Fair enough. But in doing a Google search under "Worst President Ever" George W. Bush's name keeps popping up. And in the best cases he is listed as "one of the worst but not the worst."

It is all opinion. IMHO GW Bush is the worst President ever. And probably the most dangerous.

Ah, no - the most dangerous award would belong to Lyndon B. Johnson, as he's the guy that got the Vietnam War ball rolling. You could include JFK in that argument, as he was responsible for Bay of Pigs and us having a nuclear holocaust with the Soviet Union, and heck, you could even throw Reagan, possibly one of the most popular presidents ever, into that discussion, with his cavalier attitude towards the situation with the Soviet Union (if anyone's ever heard the short audio clip of Reagan testing a sound system with the quote, "My fellow Americans, today I've signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever - we begin the bombing in 5 minutes," you would know what I'm talking about).

By a longshot, especially with the wars and conflicts we had in the 20th century, I would not classify Bush as the most dangerous President in American history.

 

[alaskaguy]

Although foreign policy mistakes are largely the reason I evaluated LBJ poorly they are not the sole reason.

 

[herbicide]

Although foreign policy mistakes are largely the reason I evaluated LBJ poorly they are not the sole reason.

And for those who think Clinton and JFK were womanizers, I heard a quote from LBJ once that he "slept with more women on accident than JFK did on purpose." Paraphrased of course, I think from his taped memoirs.

Disclaimer: I do not think that "womanizing" makes one a bad president. Just a bad public image (at least in most circles)

 

[alaskaguy]

heck, you could even throw Reagan, possibly one of the most popular presidents ever, into that discussion, with his cavalier attitude towards the situation with the Soviet Union (if anyone's ever heard the short audio clip of Reagan testing a sound system with the quote, "My fellow Americans, today I've signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever - we begin the bombing in 5 minutes," you would know what I'm talking about).

The Reagan quotation you provided was part of a sound check prior to a weekly address. Reagan made the gaffe testing the microphone and was unaware that the microphone was live. I believe that the conditions under which the statement was made and Reagan's foreign policy decisions demonstrated that he did not have a cavalier attitude towards the Soviet Union.