Refs were terrible both ways

[gizzsdad]

It shouldn't be that hard, just call fouls a foul and be done with it. The refs shouldnt adjust their calls because one team plays more physical. It is either a foul or it isn't. WVU should be made to play baketball, not a combination of basketball and MMA.

It is that hard. There's a reason that officiating rosters are shorter every year. Of course, it's being realized first at the youth levels, where it's easier to quit because the pay is so bad. But that will ultimately transfer to the higher levels, because they have a smaller pool to draw from. Even at the highest levels, there's a point at which the abuse makes it not worth even a very large check. I am fortunate to know several assigners at the HS and smaller college levels, and they have many nights where they struggle to put enough bodies (let alone competent ones) on the court/field. From the article linked below:

“Unsporting behavior continues to be the main reason that people get out of officiating,” said Mano, who added that pay for his members ranged from $50 to $60 per game at the high school level to $2,500 to $3,000 for major college football games. “They worry about their safety. They worry about putting up with all that guff for $50 a game. Are you kidding me? That’s why there are shortages of men and women who want to go out and officiate in a lot of parts of this country.”


https://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/29/sports/referee-shortage-tied-to-lack-of-respect.html

 

[riceville98]

Are you sure? It looked like Fran F. sitting at the broadcast table in Hilton

10000% sure

 

[mdk2isu]

I agree 100%. But the timing didn't make sense to me. You don't draw tech's and get ejected when your team is getting beat by 15 with 4 minutes to go. If you are trying to fire up your team you get the T when there is still a chance they can win.

This one appeared to be "I can't watch how bad we are anymore so I'm going to get ejected".

Or maybe more like I want to get back to the locker room and get the good food before the players get back there.

 

[weR138]

It is that hard. There's a reason that officiating rosters are shorter every year. Of course, it's being realized first at the youth levels, where it's easier to quit because the pay is so bad. But that will ultimately transfer to the higher levels, because they have a smaller pool to draw from. Even at the highest levels, there's a point at which the abuse makes it not worth even a very large check. I am fortunate to know several assigners at the HS and smaller college levels, and they have many nights where they struggle to put enough bodies (let alone competent ones) on the court/field. From the article linked below:

“Unsporting behavior continues to be the main reason that people get out of officiating,” said Mano, who added that pay for his members ranged from $50 to $60 per game at the high school level to $2,500 to $3,000 for major college football games. “They worry about their safety. They worry about putting up with all that guff for $50 a game. Are you kidding me? That’s why there are shortages of men and women who want to go out and officiate in a lot of parts of this country.”


https://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/29/sports/referee-shortage-tied-to-lack-of-respect.html

If you want better officiating make it harder to be a ref while paying enough to attract people who can pass a higher bar. P5 conference have no excuse; they have the money and ability to assemble a highly proficient cadre for officials.

 

[Urbandale2013]

It is that hard. There's a reason that officiating rosters are shorter every year. Of course, it's being realized first at the youth levels, where it's easier to quit because the pay is so bad. But that will ultimately transfer to the higher levels, because they have a smaller pool to draw from. Even at the highest levels, there's a point at which the abuse makes it not worth even a very large check. I am fortunate to know several assigners at the HS and smaller college levels, and they have many nights where they struggle to put enough bodies (let alone competent ones) on the court/field. From the article linked below:

“Unsporting behavior continues to be the main reason that people get out of officiating,” said Mano, who added that pay for his members ranged from $50 to $60 per game at the high school level to $2,500 to $3,000 for major college football games. “They worry about their safety. They worry about putting up with all that guff for $50 a game. Are you kidding me? That’s why there are shortages of men and women who want to go out and officiate in a lot of parts of this country.”


https://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/29/sports/referee-shortage-tied-to-lack-of-respect.html

If they really wanted more they would make it easier to become an official. I have looked into it in the past and it isn’t clear what all you have to do to start. Look at the other poster who explained how his friend stopped because of the bs in assigning games. A lot of it is self inflicted.

 

[khardbored]

It's too bad that the supposed "grades/ratings" refs get after each game both pro and college aren't released for the public. The crew last night surely would have got a poor rating for the job they did. I don't blame Huggins 1 bit for getting tossed either, the refs deserved every bit of criticism they got from both coaches and the fans.

Stop and think about this for a second . . .

You may like it, but it will do nothing but hurt recruiting of new officials. You going to sign up for a job where your performance reviews are made public?

You start making officials reviews public, or start making them do press conferences (as some who've never officiated even a pee-wee game in their life suggest), NO ONE who is decent is going to sign up to be a ref at that level.

 

[gizzsdad]

If you want better officiating make it harder to be a ref.................

Already been tried. One sport's HS roster dropped by 40% over 2 years.

 

[Cyclones_R_GR8]

It is that hard. There's a reason that officiating rosters are shorter every year. Of course, it's being realized first at the youth levels, where it's easier to quit because the pay is so bad. But that will ultimately transfer to the higher levels, because they have a smaller pool to draw from. Even at the highest levels, there's a point at which the abuse makes it not worth even a very large check. I am fortunate to know several assigners at the HS and smaller college levels, and they have many nights where they struggle to put enough bodies (let alone competent ones) on the court/field. From the article linked below:

“Unsporting behavior continues to be the main reason that people get out of officiating,” said Mano, who added that pay for his members ranged from $50 to $60 per game at the high school level to $2,500 to $3,000 for major college football games. “They worry about their safety. They worry about putting up with all that guff for $50 a game. Are you kidding me? That’s why there are shortages of men and women who want to go out and officiate in a lot of parts of this country.”


https://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/29/sports/referee-shortage-tied-to-lack-of-respect.html

Just ask John Higgins

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-referee-lawsuit-says/?utm_term=.282604a1ed46

 

[gizzsdad]

.........NO ONE who is decent is going to sign up to be a ref at that level.

Correct. The people who have the necessary talent can apply that same talent to any number of occupations that don't come with the abuse.

 

[khardbored]

If they really wanted more they would make it easier to become an official. I have looked into it in the past and it isn’t clear what all you have to do to start. Look at the other poster who explained how his friend stopped because of the bs in assigning games. A lot of it is self inflicted.

If you want to become a high school sports official in the state of Iowa, it's really easy. Pay the association, pass an open book multiple choice test.

I guarantee if you call the IAHSAA they will help you.

 

[CYdTracked]

Stop and think about this for a second . . .

You may like it, but it will do nothing but hurt recruiting of new officials. You going to sign up for a job where your performance reviews are made public?

You start making officials reviews public, or start making them do press conferences (as some who've never officiated even a pee-wee game in their life suggest), NO ONE who is decent is going to sign up to be a ref at that level.

I figure it's a pipe dream but there has to be some kind of public accountability for their performance. Not sure what the answer is but if coaches and players are held accountable for their performance and decisions yet they can't say a word about the quality of the officiating either. I get it, refs are going to make mistakes but when you have games like last night where everyone from both teams and even the announcers could agree that the officiating was inconsistent and a lot of bad calls or non-calls happened they should have a right to be critical of the officials without having to be reprimanded for talking about it.

Are refs really that thin skinned that their performance can't be publically questioned by those directly involved with the game they officiated? This seems to be a common theme with Big 12 refs in recent years, this isn't something that just pops up every now and then it happens every week in the conference. If refs like last night can't do a good job consistently they shouldn't be doing Big 12 games.

 

[khardbored]

Are refs really that thin skinned that their performance can't be publically questioned by those directly involved with the game they officiated? This seems to be a common theme with Big 12 refs in recent years, this isn't something that just pops up every now and then it happens every week in the conference. If refs like last night can't do a good job consistently they shouldn't be doing Big 12 games.

I agree in part and disagree in part . . .

It's not about being "thin skinned . . ." it's about not wanting to be publicly berated. Let's be honest, almost no one would like that. Sure, every job has accountability. Privately, behind closed doors, it's common, accepted and appropriate. But would you want to your annual performance review on television for others to watch? If your job required that, you would quit in a heartbeat.

And before you say "well, they're paid enough to deal with it," that's only part of the deal. Those guys could certainly find other jobs / part time income activities that pay something close without public scrutiny, and likely do it based on a combination of pay and liking it. Do people ever quit a job that pays well and take a lower paying job because they hate it? Yes, of course. Your concept will lead to a lot of well paid, lower quality refs.

I do agree that if a ref can't do a good job consistently they shouldn't be doing Big 12 games. The reason why officiating quality has gone downhill is because the pool of good officials gets smaller and smaller every year as refs drop out after 1-2 seasons at the high school and youth levels because of bad sportsmanship and parents. I see it first hand. I've done high school football for just under 15 years. It's gotten worse in that time, to the point where I don't do any games under 7th grade anymore. I see guys in their 20's work 3-4 games and never come back. It's a self-perpetuating issue. Refs are worse, so fans yell more. More fans yell and berate officials, the more drop out, the worse the available officials are. Repeat the cycle.

I think the only real solution is a long term one that a lot of people won't like. I think the high levels (Pro, D1 college) need to start investing in officials at the youth and high school levels, and lower college levels. Pay them well (about double) before they make it big, and the pool will get bigger slowly over time. That also needs to be combined with a 0 tolerance policy for bad parents at the lower levels.

Forcing public press conferences for officials isn't the answer. It's the law of unintended consequences.

 

[RonBurgundy]

Our Big 12 refs should be at least as good as NFL refs. Wait......what?

 

[67CY]

Eades is probably the single worst official. There are others that I don’t like such as De Rosa and George but Eades is just awful.

I don’t understand why he does so many Iowa States games. My guess is he will do our game at WV and totally screw us

 

[Deleted member 8507]

If you want to become a high school sports official in the state of Iowa, it's really easy. Pay the association, pass an open book multiple choice test.

I guarantee if you call the IAHSAA they will help you.

https://apps.iahsaa.org/secure/officialsregout2018.php

 

[weR138]

I think the only real solution is a long term one that a lot of people won't like. I think the high levels (Pro, D1 college) need to start investing in officials at the youth and high school levels, and lower college levels. Pay them well (about double) before they make it big, and the pool will get bigger slowly over time. That also needs to be combined with a 0 tolerance policy for bad parents at the lower levels.

Forcing public press conferences for officials isn't the answer. It's the law of unintended consequences.

Agree 100%.

The NFL/NBA could help themselves a lot if they'd invest in national football/basketball officiating programs that increases pay (significantly) and standards. Those standards include accountability of fanbases. High School X administration can rate their officials and officials can rate High School X, Y, Z, etc.

I'm not saying the pro leagues totally foot the bill but they do use their significant $$$ to help set up a system and standards.

It's been stated up-thread but there's a vicious circle by which bad fans remove the incentive for good officials to officiate and the officials (and subsequently the fans) get worse and worse.

 

[BWRhasnoAC]

I'm not sure those are the rules though.

Last week Iowa had a replay where Garza elbowed a guy in the face and the reviewed it and actually put Garza at the FT line. His defender was less in his space than Babb's defender was on either of those calls.

One of these two reviews was drastically wrong and I don't think it was the Garza reversal, it seems weird but even with a guy getting elbowed in the face these are not fouls on the guy delivering the elbow by the letter of the rules.

If you run up into a guys cylinder, and he makes a move to raise the ball so he can pass it. You take a bow to the face, you get what you deserve and a foul in my book.

 

[Urbandale2013]

If you want to become a high school sports official in the state of Iowa, it's really easy. Pay the association, pass an open book multiple choice test.

I guarantee if you call the IAHSAA they will help you.

My point is if they really cared they would be recruiting officials and making public opportunities to be an official. As soon as I start to get settled into my new house and stuff I might go through the effort to become one. That said it still shouldn’t be that hard if they are desperate for officials. There should be a clear way to apply directly on their site. At least the last time I looked it just wasn’t very clear and turned me off. I agree with what others said is the higher levels probably need to invest in officials at the lower levels too.

The people in charge seem to be content with the officiating level because they really don’t seem to put any effort into making it better.

 

[Cycsk]

Bingo. Eades isn't the crappy official everyone is making him out to be. The biggest issue I had from last night was that there was like a five minute stretch in the first half from the 17 minute mark to just outside of the 12 minute mark without a foul or dead ball. .

That was an amazing stretch, especially for Press Virginia.

 

[ComCY]

It's time to build a refereeing neural network system.