You know what, then just don't listen.
I'm sorry. But literally every time you comment on any of our content all you do is complain about it.
If it's all so terrible, by all means, find another free Iowa State site.
PODCAST: Williams/Blum in-depth on the 18-19 hoops season, next year, Hoiberg etc.
- Thread starter ChrisMWilliams
- Start date
You know what, then just don't listen.
I'm sorry. But literally every time you comment on any of our content all you do is complain about it.
If it's all so terrible, by all means, find another free Iowa State site.
It was just an off the cuff conversation. Weren't planning on going there with it. Just the Hoiberg era till today.
I don't think we're underestimating him. I don't believe I am, at least. Super valuable. Great talent. But if you take him off of that team, they were still really good. I think that Shayok was the glue for this year's team through January and February. I know we didn't always see it but he had a great impact behind the scenes. Got a lot of respect from the younger guys. When things were tough late in the season, he and Jake had a lot to do with getting peeps' attention. Also turned in an All-Big 12 year. I just really respect the guy.
Fair enough. I’ll do a better job of saying when I think you guys do a good job. Which I do. It’s easier for you to find the negative stuff. Just like it’s easier for me to ***** about the stuff I don’t like.
But I do want to point out that I donate or pay or whatever you want to call it every month. I pay the same I used to for rivals. So obviously I do value what you do and think that it’s very worth it. And while I agree that doing that doesn’t mean I can complain with wild abandon, I do think that I can point out things that I don’t think add value.
I’ll do better at pointing out the things that I like. One quick thing I enjoyed was your conditt profile.
Right players and the right order. I'd could see the argument for Christopherson if you value the multi season production he provided.
Kane had more highlight moments, and Royce made more circus plays. I still think we tend to remember the high points with those two and forget the low, though.
I think Kane obviously had the best team around him. The argument starts with Ejim and ends with Niang, and that is even before we talk about Morris and Hogue.
I might honestly pick Shayok (or even Chris Babb, having a guy who can truly neutralize your opponents' best scorer on any given night is quite the nice asset to have) if I have to pick one guy to add to any random team, however. Yes, Kane and Royce were great, but they needed the ball to make a huge impact, and neither were stellar defenders. Heck, Royce was almost comically bad at times. Shayok and Babb always space the floor and play good defense. You can drop those two onto any ISU team of the past 30+ years and they fit right into it.
Somebody who is immediately useful in all circumstances has to count for something. I know Kane was a good shooter, too, so I do give him some credit for that. Shayok and Babb can be really good without high usage numbers, though, which makes them versatile.
I think CW was trying to hint for us that Shayok had more to do with the leadership of the team and righting the ship than we might realize. I wish it had come sooner, but soon enough to win the Big 12 tournament is good enough for me. Plus, while we are thinking of highlights, those two big threes that Shayok hit against Kansas State have to be up there.
"He'll try for another three... it's out and right back in again!"
"Shayok... he's going to have to force one up... GOT IT!!!"
I think the undoubted champion of career productivity from a transfer at this point has to be Nick Weiler-Babb. I could see a case for Thug Life for second, though.
Oh come on, you can do better. We both know the market for transfers has changed to an incredible degree since 2010. Kansas went into this year about to start two of them. Do you think Fred would have had to go head-to-head with Self if somebody like Lawson was on the table in 2010 or 2012 the same way he would have to now? No. The world changed.
Fred found his moneyball solution, if only by accident. The problem with moneyball was everybody could copy the model quickly and easily, and everybody went ahead and did. I have a feeling that, if Fred tries to do everything the same in Lincoln for 2019 and 2020 that he did in Ames in 2010 and 2011, that the results are going to be very different for him.
Besides, Shayok, Jacobson, and Talley were three pretty good transfers on the past squad, and Nixon sounds like he is going to be at least solid. We do not own the game anymore; we are no longer the only game in town. Prohm is proving pretty decent at hybrid roster construction, and luring a P6 guy from an awesome program in Virginia (which just made a Final Four) to come in, to lead the team in scoring and to a Big 12 tournament title, and to win first-team all-conference, and to have a legitimate case to be in the Kane/Royce pantheon is not half bad.
I swear sometimes, I could write you a check for $1 million, and you'd ask where's the second.
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I think Fred will be successful in Lincoln, to a degree, because he can coach. He proved that at ISU, pantsing Self a few times. I agree that the transfer inefficiency is gone, but so is the fact that pace-and-space has become the norm, post-Golden State. He definitely doesn’t have the same advantages this time, and it will be interesting to see how he and the staff try to compensate.
I think the top 4 for sure. I thought about Clyburn vs. Burton and Nader for that fifth spot, and could make a case for any of those guys. Clyburn was the leading scorer on the team he was on, which is why I put him in that spot. Christopherson technically wouldn't be a Hoiberg transfer, he transferred in during the McDermott era.
So we are in agreement that Fred generally had two comparative advantages in Ames...
(1.) the transfer inefficiency, as you eloquently described
(2.) bringing pace-and-space NBA offensive concepts into the college game
Both of those are no longer advantages. Most everybody is wise to the transfer market now, including the blue bloods. Heck, just look at Texas Tech, who is about to play in a Final Four. Several of their important rotational guys are transfers...
Tariq Owens (from St. John's)
Matt Mooney (from South Dakota)
Brandone Francis (from Florida)
...that is 3/8 of their top eight guys right there.
That is the problem with some successful business models. They are easy to copy, and the market inefficiencies that Fred found seem to have been priced into things now.
Having success at Nebraska, a school without even the moderate tradition of an Iowa State, with no local talent base, and no home court like Hilton, to the degree that Fred probably wants to have is going to require some novel identity. Fred had one at Iowa State.
What worked last time is closed off compared to almost a decade ago.
I wonder what he comes up this time, if anything?
I still think there's a good opportunity to get high level talent if teams are willing to utilize the sit 1 play 1 guys. With departures happening late with the NBA rules now, there are still plenty of teams hesitant to tie up a scholarship for a year with a guy sitting out. There are also teams that have immediate needs for the upcoming season that put the full court press on grad transfers, and possibly reach on a guy, similar to how ISU did with Holden.
Nebraska loses most of their best guys off of a pretty bad team. They may just bite the bullet for next year and take a couple sitout transfers. If the staff feels like they need to be decent next year to keep the fans engaged, then that might throw a wrench in that plan.
But yes, the transfer market in general is a bit more difficult - supply and demand have both gone up, but getting the likes of a Kane type grad transfer is now going to be really difficult for the ISUs of the world. Everybody's been shifting more time and resources to grad transfer recruiting.
And yes, the style of play that was once pretty unique to ISU in the college game is very much commonplace.
