***Official USMNT Thread***

WooBadger18

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Sep 5, 2012
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And "good athletes" is relative, you can't just plug athletes into different sports. I think the idea that someone who is good at one sport will be good at others is misguided. Take Messi, if he wasn't playing soccer, what sport would he be dominant in? Probably not many. Same thing with Tom Brady.
 

twojman

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Jun 1, 2006
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Don't those countries have other sports their good athletes might play?

This is such a copout. Do you really think Lebron James or Aaron Rodgers would be good soccer players? No.

US has plenty of athletes. Issues start from the bottom. Youth soccer is a money maker. You have all these metro clubs that charge ~$1,500/year for kids to play select soccer (U11-U13 which is where we are at right now) What does the city of Des Moines have? They have clubs but I do not believe they have dedicated professionals running a program that starts kids at age 4 and has feeder systems through high school. Lots of potential players are being cut out at a young age simply because of money. Without the select type programs they do not get the training, development and touches to really improve. US is really hurting itself with the current setup.
 
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Cydwinder

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This is such a copout. Do you really think Lebron James or Aaron Rodgers would be good soccer players? No.

US has plenty of athletes. Issues start from the bottom. Youth soccer is a money maker. You have all these metro clubs that charge ~$1,500/year for kids to play select soccer (U11-U13 which is where we are at right now) What does the city of Des Moines have? They have clubs but I do not believe they have dedicated professionals running a program that starts kids at age 4 and has feeder systems through high school. Lots of potential players are being cut out at a young age simply because of money. Without the select type programs they do not get the training, development and touches to really improve. US is really hurting itself with the current setup.
I actually could see Lebron being a decent goalie, but he is an absolute freak athlete.
Other than that I agree 100% with you that the youth system needs to be blown up to allow more kids to stay involved. Soccer is one of the few sports that truly has a low cost to play (just need a ball, space, shoes, and shin guards), so the cost to play shouldn't be so high that people get cut before they truly start to reach their potential.
 

Mtowncyclone13

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Oct 10, 2012
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This is such a copout. Do you really think Lebron James or Aaron Rodgers would be good soccer players? No.

It was a question, not an excuse.

I played soccer my entire youth. I like soccer. But for non-fans its tough to know what makes someone good vs mediocre. In other sports the general public can see the differences because we grow up watching them.

You can see the difference between a Byron Buxton in centerfield vs someone slower or less athletic.

You can see the difference quickly between a top QB and a backup.

You can see the difference between Kobe or LeBron and a journeyman player.

In soccer it's darn near impossible to tell who is good or bad. Hockey is kind of the same way, so I think it's a function of "goal sports more than anything else. Lots of luck involved, especially in hockey.
 

mj4cy

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Mar 28, 2006
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Yeah, I didn't want us to go anyway.

I'm still excited for the World Cup because I love international soccer, but not qualify is inexcusable. Heads need to roll.


technically only about 2.5 years till qualification starts. Not that that makes it too much better


The biggest thing that annoys me is we lose the hype and the chance that we can catch fire and make a run....realistically after group stage is over I'll feel better because likely the way we've been up and down, we'd be knocked out anyways.

I'm hoping over the next few months I'll calm down and still take in one of the best sporting events period.
 

3GenClone

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So what is the difference between the US Men's & Women's clubs? Is it just that the women's team has more opportunity to succeed? I don't have any numbers in front of me, but I would think there is more money in the Men's National Team than the Women's teams, yet the Women's club has been producing winning/competitive players at a fairly consistent rate. Why can't the men's team do the same? Is Women's soccer a similar scenario to Women's college basketball where US is like UCONN and just flat out dominates for years?
 

harimad

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So what is the difference between the US Men's & Women's clubs? Is it just that the women's team has more opportunity to succeed? I don't have any numbers in front of me, but I would think there is more money in the Men's National Team than the Women's teams, yet the Women's club has been producing winning/competitive players at a fairly consistent rate. Why can't the men's team do the same? Is Women's soccer a similar scenario to Women's college basketball where US is like UCONN and just flat out dominates for years?

Because most of the world's women aren't even allowed to play.

Look at Brazil, which is as soccer-crazy as you can get. Women weren't even allowed to play until 1979.

And in countries where it is allowed, women face social and religious barriers that make it nearly impossible to play. They're either wearing too much (Brazil), or not enough (Middle East), they're "unfeminine," they're "immoral..." It's a shame.
 
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Cyowan008

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This is part of the problem. This guy is a US Rep from Pennsylvania and did not realize that Pulisic is from PA.

https://deadspin.com/politician-delights-in-americas-failure-1819346650



Yep just like what Twellman ranted about is not having pressure to succeed. There is some but not nearly what you see in the "bigger" sports here in the US.

It has to be a total culture change (as cliche as that is) if we want to be more relevant. Kids have to stop going to college to play and instead do exactly what Pulisic has done to be where he is.
 

cycloneman003

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What a disaster. This is a massive step back for US Soccer and will require a full re-set of the USSF and complete review of everything from senior national team through all youth levels. I think you almost certainly have to try and tackle this with a new 9 year plan aiming towards peaking at 2026 WC (most likely in the US). Starts with Gulati and the majority of the USSF brass OUT. Arena obviously has to go as well.

Everyone has to take on this task with an urgency to get this right fast. We need to continue our youth program improvements, as I think we are starting to see that the US truly can produce some real talents in the U17 and U20 level, and re-structure our player development systems as those young guns reach the senior level. No excuse for any of this.

If there is any solace in it at all, it is that this is a massive reality check for the USSF and will force a full scale re-evaluation and re-structuring of everything involved. Also, there are some promising pieces in place for the next two World Cups cycles if we can get this right.

U-23 talent pool who will be in there prime come 2026 has some serious potential with many at strong European clubs... just need someone who can direct the development of that group properly. The talent is coming, the federation needs to match their advancements.
 

Clonefan32

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Nov 19, 2008
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From what I gather, kids in other countries are essentially selected early on to train with these elites teams. It sounds like they are literally placed at a school where the primary emphasis is soccer training. So even if we want to establish better youth leagues, or reinvent the MLS, or whatever, do you think there is enough commitment to start selecting and training these elite kids at such a young age?

Soccer has always confounded me. Every little kid in the world plays soccer. My kids play and I would venture to guess there are between 200-300 kids that pass through this little soccer complex in my hometown on a Sunday. This same thing is happening in every community across the United States. Yet somehow, we can't produce a dozen players capable of beating Trinidad. We've produced one player that can be defined as world class.

I really think that soccer in the US is at a crossroads. Parents are being more deliberate in the sports they put their kids in. Football is declining in popularity. Elite soccer players make more money than those in other sports, and usually can sustain fairly long careers. There just is an apparent disconnect in our ability to bridge the gap between good very young players and good 19 year old + players.
 

NetflixAndClone

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The State of Hockey
It was a question, not an excuse.

I played soccer my entire youth. I like soccer. But for non-fans its tough to know what makes someone good vs mediocre. In other sports the general public can see the differences because we grow up watching them.

You can see the difference between a Byron Buxton in centerfield vs someone slower or less athletic.

You can see the difference quickly between a top QB and a backup.

You can see the difference between Kobe or LeBron and a journeyman player.

In soccer it's darn near impossible to tell who is good or bad. Hockey is kind of the same way, so I think it's a function of "goal sports more than anything else. Lots of luck involved, especially in hockey.
As someone who watches hockey idk if I agree with this. It is pretty easy to figure out who is playing better than each other. Unlike Sports like football, time of possession in hockey can be a good indicator of which team is playing better. I would also throw in shots on goal helps too. Normally the team with the most shots on goal will win unless the other team has a really good goalie. (Which is another way to show who is good or not)

Hockey has a lot of strategy with different lineups and skill that take time to polish. Out of all the goal Sports I’d say hockey is the most complex. Plus it’s the only sport I watch that has a position called an enforcer who only job is to lay the biggest hit on the opposing side.

I’d say luck isn’t that huge hockey because goals get taken away a lot if the scoring team does anything like interfer with the goalie or skate into the net. Hockey makes sure goals are pretty legitimate.
 

3GenClone

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Out of all the goal Sports I’d say hockey is the most complex. Plus it’s the only sport I watch that has a position called an enforcer who only job is to lay the biggest hit on the opposing side.

I’d say luck isn’t that huge hockey because goals get taken away a lot if the scoring team does anything like interfer with the goalie or skate into the net. Hockey makes sure goals are pretty legitimate.

This is even more true now that they instituted replay.
 
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NetflixAndClone

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Sep 6, 2015
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The State of Hockey
From what I gather, kids in other countries are essentially selected early on to train with these elites teams. It sounds like they are literally placed at a school where the primary emphasis is soccer training. So even if we want to establish better youth leagues, or reinvent the MLS, or whatever, do you think there is enough commitment to start selecting and training these elite kids at such a young age?

Soccer has always confounded me. Every little kid in the world plays soccer. My kids play and I would venture to guess there are between 200-300 kids that pass through this little soccer complex in my hometown on a Sunday. This same thing is happening in every community across the United States. Yet somehow, we can't produce a dozen players capable of beating Trinidad. We've produced one player that can be defined as world class.

I really think that soccer in the US is at a crossroads. Parents are being more deliberate in the sports they put their kids in. Football is declining in popularity. Elite soccer players make more money than those in other sports, and usually can sustain fairly long careers. There just is an apparent disconnect in our ability to bridge the gap between good very young players and good 19 year old + players.
I think you hit the head on the nail with soccer academies. The thing is in America we would have a hard time handling something like that. Take college school for example. College athletes are only allowed to practice so much time a week and also balance classes. In other nations they don’t have restrictions on how much they play and practice. Their whole lives is school, soccer, and bed.

I’ve heard before that our college soccer looks like a joke compared to what soccer athletes in Europe do around the same age.
 

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