*** Official IOWA STATE vs #3 Iowa Game(Day) Thread ***

Clyde4cy

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Time to start Foster. Let’s just rip this band aid off. Also **** Iowa but Garza is so good. Just a nearly flawless college player. If he gets his 3% in the upper 30’s I think he will be a late first rounder. He’s like a off the bench Jokic without the handle or passing, which is why he’s off the bench Jokic.

I agree on starting Foster.

Solo had 1 defensive rebound in 29min last night. On the season he has 4 in 77 minutes of PT. That is unacceptable for a starting Center to be less effective on the defensive glass than 5’9 Harris(7 defensive boards in 86 min).
 

MeowingCows

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I agree on starting Foster.

Solo had 1 defensive rebound in 29min last night. On the season he has 4 in 77 minutes of PT. That is unacceptable for a starting Center to be less effective on the defensive glass than 5’9 Harris(7 defensive boards in 86 min).
Solo has no idea how to track and grab a rebound, he picks on spot under the rim and stays there, hoping the ball bounces straight to him.

Harris does well moving with the ball as it's coming in
 
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mplueg

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Solo has no idea how to track and grab a rebound, he picks on spot under the rim and stays there, hoping the ball bounces straight to him.

Harris does well moving with the ball as it's coming in

The love fest on this board for Solo is much like Lewis - I have never understood it!! Solo has had some good offensive games but is a TERRIBLE rebounder and subpar at defense!!!
 
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Cyinthenorth

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I didn't pay the game any mind last night and I'm glad I elected to not. I have seen the box score, play by play etc, so I know how things went down. Losing to Iowa is such a pain in the ass and eats at me more than losing to other teams, simply because I know I'm gonna have to deal with their fans, living in Eastern Iowa I'm literally surrounded. It was tough for me to skip, I think I've seen every isu bball game dating back to early Hoiberg era. But this game was always going to be tough, and honestly never even had a fools hope of winning. The outcome was sadly to be expected. Add worst cy hawk margin of defeat to Prohms list of other accomplishments in reverse.

I do think there were positive takeaways, but by God the defense is truly atrocious and anything good that happens this season will be the result of the players becoming cohesive together. Should be some wins down the stretch, among many more (ugly) losses
 
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clonedude

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What good does those 4 star kids do if they play for a year and then leave? We have 7 new players this year, had the same thing last year. Sorry but I would love for ISU to have a kid like the Fredrick kid that redshirts and then plays for 4 years for ISU, over a player like Tucker that was a one and done and is now playing in the NBA. Which one helps his school more, Fredricks 4 years at EIU or Tuckers 1?

Sorry.... this is just dumb.

So should Prohm yank Tyrese Hunter's scholarship away from him right now because he might just be good enough to leave ISU early for the NBA someday? And instead give it to some 3 star kid from Iowa (to make Jake Sullivan happy) that we think will have no chance of ever leaving early for the NBA?

We've had rosters like that before.... and it wasn't pretty at all.
 

Clonefan32

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Stayed away for a few days, but here are my observations:

A) Prohm continues to be a horrendous in game coach. Much like last year, when we get zoned our offense turns into passing it around the perimeter before a desperation 27 footer, which to be fair is not markedly different than our actual man-to-man offense. There is a complete lack of game plan or adjustments.

And if anything is worse than his offense gameplan, it's his defense gameplan. It's astonishing to watch how bad we guard people. Straight line drives with zero resistance. Absolute uncertainty about where to be on rotations. On the rare occasions we do get a stop we can't rebound. I found myself Friday saying the same thing I said all last year-- what exactly do we practice? What exactly is our gameplan?

B) I know people think we have some great talent influx coming with our freshmen, but they are a ways from being contributors. This may not be a popular opinion, but the best freshman on the floor on Friday was Keegan Murray, the kid we all made fun of Iowa for signing. He was certainly better than Dubar, Blackwell and Walker. An argument could be made either way on who was better between he and Foster. Now does Foster have the higher upside? Of course. But if we are relying on those 4 to save the program within the next year or two, boy, I have my doubts.

C) On that note, give Foster all the minutes. Solo has his moments and I commend the kid for sticking it out with his injuries. He has a place as a 12 or so minute a guy. But he just cannot guard and cannot rebound.

As for Conditt, it seems to me his confidence is just shot. He used to go to the basket with authority. That travel told me about all I need to know about where his game is at now, as he made a nice move to back in and then just refused to go up.

Just go all in on Foster and see where you wind up at this point.

D) I'm not sure I've heard a worse argument than "moar Iowa kidz!" If anyone can say with a straight face that Tyreke Locure and Bowen Born are the answers to our problems I commend them. I guess if your argument is "it can't get much worse" then ok, I guess? While there may be some truth to that I'm not sure it gets us anywhere near where we need to be.

Also, using Iowa as the basis for that argument is pure comedy. You've got Garza, Frederick, Nunge, Touissant-- all out of state. Plus, anyone with a brain can see it's a team full of good, but not great players, and a generational talent in Garza. But if you think a team of Weiskamp, JBo, the McAffreys, Bowen Born and Tyreke Locure would do anything but lose by 40 (which, albeit, is not that much worse than what we have...) you are crazy.

E) I'm at the same point with Prohm as I was with CPR at the end of his tenure. You'd love for it to work out, but it's not. It is what it is. So either we are trying to be a competitor or we just don't give a **** about basketball and those resources should go elsewhere. I don't really care what the answer to that is, but at least be honest about what we are dealing with, which is a coach who is completely overwhelmed. When you dip down into the mid-majors for a coach your not always going to find a big fish in a small pond like you did with Campbell at Toledo. Sometimes they are a small fish who is in the exact pond they belong in.
 
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madguy30

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Sorry.... this is just dumb.

So should Prohm yank Tyrese Hunter's scholarship away from him right now because he might just be good enough to leave ISU early for the NBA someday? And instead give it to some 3 star kid from Iowa (to make Jake Sullivan happy) that we think will have no chance of ever leaving early for the NBA?

We've had rosters like that before.... and it wasn't pretty at all.

Need balance of having the latter mixed with the former. Not necessarily Iowa kids, but players to fit roles of the foundation of the team or program.

Roles or a real foundation have seemed to be missing since 2017, although there were some good things happening with Wigginton and Lard in 17-18 where they really had a Yin-Yang deal going but obviously that didn't last.
 
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SEIOWA CLONE

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Sorry.... this is just dumb.

So should Prohm yank Tyrese Hunter's scholarship away from him right now because he might just be good enough to leave ISU early for the NBA someday? And instead give it to some 3 star kid from Iowa (to make Jake Sullivan happy) that we think will have no chance of ever leaving early for the NBA?

We've had rosters like that before.... and it wasn't pretty at all.
How many years in a row do we have to go through rebuilding the roster? ISU is not Duke, Kentucky and other programs that can bring in 5 or 6 new players year after year, we have to redshirt and see them improve. Get kids committed to playing for the coach and the school.
Yes, I would take a 3 star kid like Born, that wants to have a 4 year career at ISU over a one and down player like Tucker. I could care less how they are doing in the NBA, I care about having a better team at Iowa State. No one is saying we have to only take kids from Iowa, go out and find good players that want to go to college and play basketball, not kids that see college as a stepping stone to the NBA. Get a mix of both, and then you have a great team.

We just lost to 30 to a team east of us that is doing that exact thing, bringing in kids that good but not great, and watching the improve over their career.
When was the last time ISU had a big that did anything, or a kid outside that if left open, drains the 3 pointer. After watching that game Friday night, who for ISU would start for EIU, maybe one kid at most, is it going to be any better next year, they only had 2 seniors, the will struggle to replace Garza, but while Bohannan is a decent player, it looks like to me that they will be fine.
 
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clonedude

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Stayed away for a few days, but here's my observations:

A) Prohm continues to be a horrendous in game coach. Much like last year, when we get zoned our offense turns into passing it around the perimeter before a desperation 27 footer, which to be fair is not markedly different than our actual offense. There is a complete lack of game plan or adjustments.

And if anything is worse than his offense gameplan, it's his defense gameplan. It's astonishing to watch how bad we guard people. Straight line drives with zero resistance. Absolute uncertainty about where to be on rotations. I found myself Friday saying the same thing I said all last year-- what exactly do we practice? What exactly is our gameplan?

B) I know people think we have some great talent influx coming with our freshmen, but they are a ways from being contributors. This may not be a popular opinion, but the best freshman on the floor on Friday was Keegan Murray, the kid we all made fun of Iowa for signing. He was certainly better than Dubar, Blackwell and Walker. An argument could be made either way on who was better between he and Foster. Now does Foster have the higher upside? Of course. But if we are relying on those 4 to save the program within the next year or two, boy, I have my doubts.

C) I'm not sure I've heard a worse argument than "moar Iowa kidz!" If anyone can say with a straight face that Tyreke Locure and Bowen Born are the answers to our problems I commend them.

Also, using Iowa as the basis for that argument is also pure comedy. You've got Garza, Frederick, Nunge, Touissant-- all out of state. Plus, anyone with a brain can see it's a team full of good, but not great players, and a generational talent in Garza. But if you think a team of Weiskamp, JBo, the McAffreys, Bowen Born and Tyreke Locure would do anything but lose by 40 (which, albeit, is not that much worse than what we have...) you are crazy.

D) I'm at the same point I was at with Prohm as I was with CPR at the end of his tenure. You'd love for it to work out, but it's not. It is what it is. So either we are trying to be a competitor or we just don't give a **** about basketball and those resources should go elsewhere. I don't really care what the answer to that is, but at least be honest about what we are dealing with, which is a coach who is completely overwhelmed. When you dip down into the mid-majors for a coach your not always going to find a big fish in a small pond like you did with Campbell at Toledo. Sometimes they are a small fish who is in the exact pond they belong in.

Great post! Agree with all of that.

The reason the Murray's only had an offer from Western Illinois was because they were really thin and very soft players. That year in prep school in Florida did wonders for them. They bulked up quite a bit, and Keegan at least got a lot more aggressive as a player. He's now a 6'9" kid that can run, can go inside and grab rebounds and get some putbacks, but can also hit 3's at a good clip. I wouldn't mind having a player like that coming off our bench.

And you are so right about our offense and defense. When Iowa went zone, we just passed it around the perimeter until the shot clock got down and then launched a horrible 3 about every time. Didn't we also get like two 5 second calls trying to do a simple inbounds play again? This happens every single year.

I think JP has to give Prohm next year, due to financial constraints, but if things don't improve next year Prohm has to go.
 

Clonefan32

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How many years in a row do we have to go through rebuilding the roster? ISU is not Duke, Kentucky and other programs that can bring in 5 or 6 new players year after year, we have to redshirt and see them improve. Get kids committed to playing for the coach and the school.
Yes, I would take a 3 star kid like Born, that wants to have a 4 year career at ISU over a one and down player like Tucker. I could care less how they are doing in the NBA, I care about having a better team at Iowa State. No one is saying we have to only take kids from Iowa, go out and find good players that want to go to college and play basketball, not kids that see college as a stepping stone to the NBA. Get a mix of both, and then you have a great team.

We just lost to 30 to a team east of us that is doing that exact thing, bringing in kids that good but not great, and watching the improve over their career.
When was the last time ISU had a big that did anything, or a kid outside that if left open, drains the 3 pointer. After watching that game Friday night, who for ISU would start for EIU, maybe one kid at most, is it going to be any better next year, they only had 2 seniors, the will struggle to replace Garza, but while Bohannan is a decent player, it looks like to me that they will be fine.

This seems to imply Iowa hasn't been rebuilding. This year for them is the culmination of a rebuild that happened after those Uthoff/White teams. It's taken them a few years to become competitive again, and frankly they've hit the jackpot of having a uber-successful college player with no NBA prospects. Who was the last guy that could score and rebound like Garza who had 0 chance at the NBA so he stayed 4 years? It doesn't happen, and frankly they are reaping the benefits of a successful player who isn't going to leave.

As for Iowa's elite shooting-- first off it's a big byproduct of Garza. He gets them open shots. Also, with Frederick, Weiskamp and Nunge, we aren't talking about Bowen Born. Frederick is 6'4" and had numerous other P5 offers. Weiskamp was a consensus top 50 player. Nunge could be an NBA caliber player. The only equivalent to Bowen is JBo, who is 3 inches taller than Born.

So let's not act like Iowa's success if a bunch of plucky underdogs. Iowa isn't having their success loading up with guys like Bowen Born. Could we stand to value shooting more? Absolutely. But taking Iowa kids just to say we did doesn't do us any good.
 

brokenloginagain

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Who was the last guy that could score and rebound like Garza who had 0 chance at the NBA so he stayed 4 years?

Ethan Happ at Wisconsin two years ago. 2100 pts, 1200 rbs, 400 assists. Only 6 players in college have ever done that.

Went undrafted.
 

2forISU

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agree. I said we had two guys who are playing this year that played last year. I was wrong, there were 3.
Played or not all 5 guys witnessed the game and how Iowa slapped us around. All 5 played this year and should have remembered last year.
 

SEIOWA CLONE

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This seems to imply Iowa hasn't been rebuilding. This year for them is the culmination of a rebuild that happened after those Uthoff/White teams. It's taken them a few years to become competitive again, and frankly they've hit the jackpot of having a uber-successful college player with no NBA prospects. Who was the last guy that could score and rebound like Garza who had 0 chance at the NBA so he stayed 4 years? It doesn't happen, and frankly they are reaping the benefits of a successful player who isn't going to leave.

As for Iowa's elite shooting-- first off it's a big byproduct of Garza. He gets them open shots. Also, with Frederick, Weiskamp and Nunge, we aren't talking about Bowen Born. Frederick is 6'4" and had numerous other P5 offers. Weiskamp was a consensus top 50 player. Nunge could be an NBA caliber player. The only equivalent to Bowen is JBo, who is 3 inches taller than Born.

So let's not act like Iowa's success if a bunch of plucky underdogs. Iowa isn't having their success loading up with guys like Bowen Born. Could we stand to value shooting more? Absolutely. But taking Iowa kids just to say we did doesn't do us any good.

EIU was 20-11 last year and beat us at Hilton last year by 16, this is just a one year run is just not true. The year before they were 22-11. You have to go back to the 17-18 year season before you find a poor season at 14-19.

Last year we were 12-20, 2018/19 we were 23-11, the year before 13-18, so its not like is the first poor showing we have had lately.
 

madguy30

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Ethan Happ at Wisconsin two years ago. 2100 pts, 1200 rbs, 400 assists. Only 6 players in college have ever done that.

Went undrafted.

Happ couldn't hit outside shots like Garza.

Oddly I'd give Garza a better chance at the NBA than Happ.
 

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