*** Official #23 BYU vs #10 IOWA STATE Game(Day) Thread ***

fsanford

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If that team had more talent, why weren’t they preseason top 5? Barely even top 20.
because there is lots of subjectivity in the ratings..
And they were preseason 14 werent they closer to top 10 than being out of top 20

and the conference in 2014-2015 was considered somewhat pedestrian.
Big 12 this year has a top 5 team, 2 top 10 and 5 top 25

ISU at 9 was the highest ranked in the bunch. You had 5 good teams and 5 bad ones.

This year 2 really good teams, maybe 3 good ones, and kind of drops off after that
 
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fsanford

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They were 19th preseason.
Preseason AP they were 14th.

Throw in bloggers, columnists, talking heads and others, it is 10-25

Now when it comes to Ken Pom 2014 team was 20th by the end
This bunch is currently 11th


Lastly didn't that 2014-2015 team have 5 guys that ended up on NBA rosters at some point? ISU this year, maybe 1 or 2?

I do think a Jameel McKay on this team would be a huge.
 
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Cyhig

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And 22-8 isn’t bad. People have to chill with this rollercoaster of emotions. It will end up effecting our ability to keep TJ and the ability to retain parts of this roster. If we finish with 26 wins it would the 4th highest win total in Iowa State history. Let’s get a win on Saturday, get a couple in KC and just see what happens in March.
I live in MN and work with a few who are Gopher fans. They are envious of ISU. The NCAA tournament is a lot of fun to watch, but it is very exciting when your team is in the tournament. And not only in the tournament, but having a legitimate chance at making a run.

And the success of a basketball team often is about what the team accomplished during the tournaments. For example, the 2000-2001 squad won the big 12 regular season title. But they lost their first game in the conference tournament and then lost as a 2 seed in the first round. Do people view the season a success because they won the regular season conference title? Maybe some do. But I think most of us would determine the success/failure of the season based on what happens in March

So as the conference tournament and NCAA tournaments approach, I will be 1) enjoying every moment of it and 2) be grateful we have a program where these games are meaningful and fun to watch.
 

NY Chicago Fan

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People who are supposed to know about basketball looked at ISU and made them pre-season #5. Why has ISU become a middle of the pack team? Why should ISU be more mentally/physically exhausted than any other Big 12 team going through the grind? I don't have the answers, but if things don't turn around, the ISU coaching staff needs to find some answers to those questions.

Why was ISU a preseason #5 but not finishing reg season there?

I would think experts would not expect Team with so many returning guards to turn the ball over as much as they do.
Lipsey, maybe due to thumb, is scoring less (Jones more), shooting 3s worse (this hurts), and has less assists/gm (and Gilbert is flat yr 2 yr so maybe Jefferson stealing assists) vs. last year
Milan shooting higher % but not averaging more pts - needs more shots
Team has 3 Ls that they could have won with 1 play (Arizona, Auburn, BYU)
 

Clonefan32

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Herein lies the problem—this is not the gameplan. We can only assume the coaching staff is trying everything it can to prevent the players from doing this. Otz has talked about ball movement before. But injuries and illnesses preventing guys not only from playing in games but also from practicing is still affecting the team. They don't quite trust each other on passes, and aren't on the same wavelength as far as ball-handlers-not-named-Lipsey and anyone off the ball. Don't take my word for it, everyone should watch the CF video of Otz’s postgame responses. He made no excuses, but said their success early in the season was almost entirely the result of guys "earning it" on the practice court. But in recent months they have not had a full cast in practice, the implication being they haven't been able to "earn it," i.e., extensively prepare to perform at their best in games. We can say "They should be fresh, then!" or "Practices aren't that useful,“ but it's hard to repeatedly plug guys into games who haven't necessarily practiced at full speed—or at all—with the other guys you want to play big minutes.

So, lack of trust/discombobulation -> hesitant and stagnant offense. I’m not saying Otz is Mark Pope, but I can’t get on board with the people saying Schmidt needs to go or that Otz has no idea how to coach offense. These aren't Xs and Os problems IMO. The coaches aren’t telling the players to pass it once, stand around, and have Jefferson take a timid floater or Jones take a long 2.

What last night boils down to is whether you think there's not enough time left for guys to get in sync, or whether they proved to themselves even in a loss that they can lean on their defense when they're struggling on the other end. Those who believe the former may be right. I'm going to hold out hope for the latter because, honestly, last night plus the weather in the Midwest right now has me bummed, but optimism is a choice.
I get it comes down the execution. But if what you say above is true what’s the point of coaching? It’s their job to put guys in spots to succeed. It’s their job to create the discipline to know a good shot from a bad one, and to know the role you are playing.

The beginning of the second half was 100 percent bad X and Os. It was as bad of offense as you will ever see throwing it into the post and letting JJ take a dozen dribbles to back his guy down. Thats horrible offense. The two end of game situations weren’t very well drawn up either.

Yes guys have to execute but I really don’t believe our coaches are putting them in the best position to do so.
 
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Bo Darville

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What last night boils down to is whether you think there's not enough time left for guys to get in sync, or whether they proved to themselves even in a loss that they can lean on their defense when they're struggling on the other end. Those who believe the former may be right. I'm going to hold out hope for the latter because, honestly, last night plus the weather in the Midwest right now has me bummed, but optimism is a choice.

There's only one game left in the regular season. This team is who it is.

And realistically, which team are we, the one we saw back in December? Or the one that we saw last night?

I'd say adjust expectations and just see how it goes. Final Four ain't happening, but still could be some redemption if we can avoid the 4 line.
 

Cloned4Life

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I live in MN and work with a few who are Gopher fans. They are envious of ISU. The NCAA tournament is a lot of fun to watch, but it is very exciting when your team is in the tournament. And not only in the tournament, but having a legitimate chance at making a run.

And the success of a basketball team often is about what the team accomplished during the tournaments. For example, the 2000-2001 squad won the big 12 regular season title. But they lost their first game in the conference tournament and then lost as a 2 seed in the first round. Do people view the season a success because they won the regular season conference title? Maybe some do. But I think most of us would determine the success/failure of the season based on what happens in March

So as the conference tournament and NCAA tournaments approach, I will be 1) enjoying every moment of it and 2) be grateful we have a program where these games are meaningful and fun to watch.
Do you think Iowa State fans are ungrateful for our program? If you believe so, why? What evidence do you have?

Are you suggesting other school's fans in similar situations (or if they become into similar situation) would react to losses and expectations differently? Better?
 
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madguy30

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Anyone want to do a composite 'how it started/going' for this season and add a 'why' for the programs/teams with elite coaches that aren't currently ranked?

 

Cyhig

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Do you think Iowa State fans are ungrateful for our program? If you believe so, why? What evidence do you have?

Are you suggesting other school's fans in similar situations (or if they become into similar situation) would react to losses and expectations differently? Better?
My point is ISU basketball is in a position to make a run in the NCAA tournament, and they have been in that position for a few years in a row now. There are plenty of other fan bases who want what ISU has. I wanted to beat BYU last night just like everyone else. But the fact they lost doesn't change the big picture: What ISU does in the tournament will determine the overall success of the season. And they have the capability to make a run in these tournaments.

And there are plenty of other fan bases at this point in the season where they know their team won't even make their conference tournament and they know they won't make the NCAA tournament. Their season is all but over. They want what ISU has right now.

So while ISU lost last night, it really doesn't change anything about this team or the season. Enjoy the tournaments.
 

madguy30

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My point is ISU basketball is in a position to make a run in the NCAA tournament, and they have been in that position for a few years in a row now. There are plenty of other fan bases who want what ISU has. I wanted to beat BYU last night just like everyone else. But the fact they lost doesn't change the big picture: What ISU does in the tournament will determine the overall success of the season. And they have the capability to make a run in these tournaments.

And there are plenty of other fan bases at this point in the season where they know their team won't even make their conference tournament and they know they won't make the NCAA tournament. Their season is all but over. They want what ISU has right now.

So while ISU lost last night, it really doesn't change anything about this team or the season. Enjoy the tournaments.

Are you discounting the Crown tournament?

Season's not over!!!
 

fsanford

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People who are supposed to know about basketball looked at ISU and made them pre-season #5. Why has ISU become a middle of the pack team? Why should ISU be more mentally/physically exhausted than any other Big 12 team going through the grind? I don't have the answers, but if things don't turn around, the ISU coaching staff needs to find some answers to those questions.
This is the preseason top 25, now I ask you why do you think these guys know more about basketball than others?

There are lots of swings and misses here.
Duke and Auburn are certainly over achieving. Florida is by far the biggest over achiever.


The problem is we all take this bull$hit as gospel. Me included...
Clearly it is not.. Injuries, who you play when, does the other team have guys out when you play them all play a roll in a season.



1Kansas (30)1,449
2Alabama (14)1,428
3UConn (11)1,345
4Houston (4)1,343
5Iowa State1,177
6Gonzaga (1)1,157
7Duke1,154
8Baylor1,109
9North Carolina1,037
10Arizona905
11Auburn901
12Tennessee775
13Texas A&M737
14Purdue678
15Creighton631
16Arkansas625
17Indiana492
18Marquette484
19Texas332
20Cincinnati271
21Florida249
22UCLA210
23Kentucky191
24Ole Miss132
25Rutgers102
 
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rochclone

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I get it comes down the execution. But if what you say above is true what’s the point of coaching? It’s their job to put guys in spots to succeed. It’s their job to create the discipline to know a good shot from a bad one, and to know the role you are playing.

The beginning of the second half was 100 percent bad X and Os. It was as bad of offense as you will ever see throwing it into the post and letting JJ take a dozen dribbles to back his guy down. Thats horrible offense. The two end of game situations weren’t very well drawn up either.

Yes guys have to execute but I really don’t believe our coaches are putting them in the best position to do so.

The end of the 1st OT was a major issue with simply not getting the ball to Jefferson until too late in the clock. That probably falls on Tamin as that pass needs to go to JJ at 4 or 5 seconds not at 2.2 seconds.

The end of the 2nd OT Milan had his man beat with 10 seconds left. If he takes another dribble he likely scores but then who knows if we can defend in the last 7 seconds.

I think the late games X's and O's can certainly improve and put guys in a better position to succeed. But I think some of the issues last night were also on the execution side.
 

madguy30

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This is the preseason top 25, now I ask you why do you think these guys know more about basketball than others?

There are lots of swings and misses here.
Duke and Auburn are certainly over achieving. Florida is by far the biggest over achiever.


The problem is we all take this bull$hit as gospel. Me included...
Clearly it is not.. Injuries, who you play when, does the other team have guys out when you play them all play a roll in a season.



1Kansas (30)1,449
2Alabama (14)1,428
3UConn (11)1,345
4Houston (4)1,343
5Iowa State1,177
6Gonzaga (1)1,157
7Duke1,154
8Baylor1,109
9North Carolina1,037
10Arizona905
11Auburn901
12Tennessee775
13Texas A&M737
14Purdue678
15Creighton631
16Arkansas625
17Indiana492
18Marquette484
19Texas332
20Cincinnati271
21Florida249
22UCLA210
23Kentucky191
24Ole Miss132
25Rutgers102

WTF happened to Florida!!!??
 

Bo Darville

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My point is ISU basketball is in a position to make a run in the NCAA tournament, and they have been in that position for a few years in a row now. There are plenty of other fan bases who want what ISU has. I wanted to beat BYU last night just like everyone else. But the fact they lost doesn't change the big picture: What ISU does in the tournament will determine the overall success of the season. And they have the capability to make a run in these tournaments.

And there are plenty of other fan bases at this point in the season where they know their team won't even make their conference tournament and they know they won't make the NCAA tournament. Their season is all but over. They want what ISU has right now.

So while ISU lost last night, it really doesn't change anything about this team or the season. Enjoy the tournaments.

If last night's loss contributes to a drop to the 4 line (possible), it most certainly does change the big picture and capability to make a run.

And we've heard the same thing about every one of these losses. WVU was a good loss. KSU was hot. OSU's big is good and they've underperformed. Well, all of these contribute to a declining body of work that has dropped us from a potential 1 seed to a 3 or 4. Taken in whole, this is a big deal for the overall success of the season, especially vs expectations.
 

fsanford

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WTF happened to Florida!!!??
St Johns... they are not even listed. Thought they were part of others receiving votes.

Honestly of the Top 10, ISU compared to Kansas, UConn, Baylor, Gonzaga, North Carolina, are doing pretty well.
 
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dahliaclone

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This is the preseason top 25, now I ask you why do you think these guys know more about basketball than others?

There are lots of swings and misses here.
Duke and Auburn are certainly over achieving. Florida is by far the biggest over achiever.


The problem is we all take this bull$hit as gospel. Me included...
Clearly it is not.. Injuries, who you play when, does the other team have guys out when you play them all play a roll in a season.



1Kansas (30)1,449
2Alabama (14)1,428
3UConn (11)1,345
4Houston (4)1,343
5Iowa State1,177
6Gonzaga (1)1,157
7Duke1,154
8Baylor1,109
9North Carolina1,037
10Arizona905
11Auburn901
12Tennessee775
13Texas A&M737
14Purdue678
15Creighton631
16Arkansas625
17Indiana492
18Marquette484
19Texas332
20Cincinnati271
21Florida249
22UCLA210
23Kentucky191
24Ole Miss132
25Rutgers102
The KSU and OSU and maybe the WVU losses are the outliers and where I think a lot of fans are most frustrated and for good reason. Stinkers all around. Our other five losses are to NET ranked teams of #1, #3, #10, #21 and #24. Losing twice in Hilton + jeckyl and hyde play have a lot of fans miffed. I get it.
 

Die4Cy

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So much this.

They have come up with some good in-bounds and OTO plays this year, which is an improvement. But when they need that last shot bucket... its "Morgan-esque" by which I mean it looks like they haven't practiced at all.

They just force stuff into the lane, or chuck a 3 if they cant get around anyone.

Maybe we just lack the 1st round type talent guy who can make it happen on his own, or miss having Monte and Georges who were the world champion pick-and-roll/pop guys.
I love our post players so don't take this the wrong way. And JJ does have great hands, but as a group they don't, which means different player rotations really affect how much ball movement ISU has playing effectively from inside the paint outward to the arc. Then they lull back into relying on perimeter passing and hoping they are going to be "on" enough from three point range that something loosens up. Most nights in Hilton, it works. Just caught up with them last night. They know they are at their best when they get the ball inside and can find the open man if/when the double comes, but Big 12 teams have kinda figured that out. I think our staff is resigned to the idea that this is who this team is, and results can come if they only do the same things, but better. Maybe that's right.

The defense was really outstanding for most of the game. They had periods where you could tell they were just gassed, which includes both overtime periods, but that was not a loss from inadequate effort. They deserved to win that game based on how they played from the start of the second half, they just dug themselves a hole letting Keita clean up everything that came off the rim.

I want to believe Iowa State is making a deep run this year, and the metrics say they can. It's just been awhile since I saw them play with any kind of consistency that you could point to and say that's what a final four team does.
 

Cloned4Life

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My point is ISU basketball is in a position to make a run in the NCAA tournament, and they have been in that position for a few years in a row now. There are plenty of other fan bases who want what ISU has. I wanted to beat BYU last night just like everyone else. But the fact they lost doesn't change the big picture: What ISU does in the tournament will determine the overall success of the season. And they have the capability to make a run in these tournaments.

And there are plenty of other fan bases at this point in the season where they know their team won't even make their conference tournament and they know they won't make the NCAA tournament. Their season is all but over. They want what ISU has right now.

So while ISU lost last night, it really doesn't change anything about this team or the season. Enjoy the tournaments.
I don’t think many would disagree with what you’re saying. I’m just not sure what you’re suggesting. Am I interpreting this as - you think you’re seeing - on message boards - Iowa State fans that are NOT going enjoy the tournaments? That Iowa State fans are NOT grateful for the program and what it’s doing right now? Is there anything a fan can share that borders on “frustration” or “criticism” that is OK or valid in your mind?

Sincerely apologize if I am missing something here, because my gut reaction is you are trying to lecture Iowa State fans on their ungrateful attitudes after a tough home loss, after they’ve seen a season of expectations spiral a bit in the last 6+ weeks. I struggle with why fans would feel the need to scold or lecture other fans or tell them how to root for their favorite team/school. Including how and what they post after tough losses and bad games. Whether the team is 22-8 and in a MUCH better place as a Team and Program (vs. like Minnesota or whoever), IMHO, is irrelevant.