MLB: ***Official 2022 Chicago Cubs Season Thread***

CyJack13

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Keegan Thompson, with a 5.87 second half ERA, proven starter.

Kyle Hendricks a guy who’s ERA has increased every season but one since 2016, who has an ERA over 4.75 in his last 48 starts, totally going to bounce back to 2016 form once he makes some jnew friends on the team.

Wesneski’s two starts before your huge 15 inning sample size? 12 runs in five innings. Think we can get Ohtani straight up for him?

Smyly is fine, Stroman is fine. Steele’s development over the course of the season seems legit, which is very promising. You’re not going to sell me that we’re close to having an elite rotation built almost entirely in house no matter how many of the cherriest picked stats you find.
 

ISUCubswin

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The general thought has been the Cubs spend on a high-end ace and a high-end SS this upcoming offseason. But if you trade for Ohtani, you aren't spending on an ace and you still have that money.

So hear me out...

1. Extend Ohtani but do not front-load the offer
2. Grab DeGrom on a one year deal worth $10-15 million MORE than his multi-million offers
3. Go into season with Ohtani, DeGrom, Stroman, Steele, Hendricks as your starting 5
4. Hope you score 1 run a game.
5. Go undefeated.
 

CyJack13

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The general thought has been the Cubs spend on a high-end ace and a high-end SS this upcoming offseason. But if you trade for Ohtani, you aren't spending on an ace and you still have that money.

So hear me out...

1. Extend Ohtani but do not front-load the offer
2. Grab DeGrom on a one year deal worth $10-15 million MORE than his multi-million offers
3. Go into season with Ohtani, DeGrom, Stroman, Steele, Hendricks as your starting 5
4. Hope you score 1 run a game.
5. Go undefeated.

Is DeGrom even an upgrade over Wesneski at this point? Not sure what his last 15 innings look like.
 

GoHawks

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Is DeGrom even an upgrade over Wesneski at this point? Not sure what his last 15 innings look like.
I know you're joking but DeGrom is hurt too much for the kind of money he's going to require. Firm pass
 

CyJack13

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I know you're joking but DeGrom is hurt too much for the kind of money he's going to require. Firm pass

For the Cubs at this point, I agree. If we we’re close to being a serious contender, I would be very open to a big money, short term deal.
 
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ISUCubswin

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I know you're joking but DeGrom is hurt too much for the kind of money he's going to require. Firm pass
I would agree if it was a multi-year deal but hear me out.

Cubs farm and next "window" isn't supposed to be until 2024. You splooge on a one year deal for DeGrom in 2023, a bonus window opens in 2023 and worst case scenario, he gets hurt, and your window is for 2024 will still happen. It would have zero impact on the 2024 season.
 

GoHawks

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I would agree if it was a multi-year deal but hear me out.

Cubs farm and next "window" isn't supposed to be until 2024. You splooge on a one year deal for DeGrom in 2023, a bonus window opens in 2023 and worst case scenario, he gets hurt, and your window is for 2024 will still happen. It would have zero impact on the 2024 season.
In theory I agree but if the front office signs DeGrom they're going to view that as their big rotation splurge and not sign another. If that's the case I'd rather the big sign come elsewhere
 

CyJack13

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I would agree if it was a multi-year deal but hear me out.

Cubs farm and next "window" isn't supposed to be until 2024. You splooge on a one year deal for DeGrom in 2023, a bonus window opens in 2023 and worst case scenario, he gets hurt, and your window is for 2024 will still happen. It would have zero impact on the 2024 season.

He’s opting out of $30M next year, to get him on a one year deal, a huge risk to him, how much do you think they would be offering?

And for what? To win 80 instead of 74 games and then need to fill that spot again the next year? They should be looking for long term options, especially if they have as many potential quality starters already in the organization as you think.
 
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gocubs2118

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This team has some legit pieces. Ricketts has the ability to speed it up if he finds enough money in the couch cushions.
 

ISUCubswin

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He’s opting out of $30M next year, to get him on a one year deal, a huge risk to him, how much do you think they would be offering?

And for what? To win 80 instead of 74 games and then need to fill that spot again the next year? They should be looking for long term options, especially if they have as many potential quality starters already in the organization as you think.
I would easily offer him a $50 million one year deal. There isn't another starting pitcher in the 2023 offseason that I think would add much improvement to our rotation. I question if a Rodon is worth the first round pick you're likely giving up.

Your bottom paragraph contradicts itself but I have a feeling you already knew that. We have 7 guys with decent ceilings in Steele, Thompson, Brown, Wesneski, Horton, Ferris, Wicks and they'll be cheap for awhile. If just 3 of them pan out to be high end starters, you're the Chicago freaking Cubs, you have the money to fund the additional starting spots necessary.
 

GoHawks

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I would easily offer him a $50 million one year deal. There isn't another starting pitcher in the 2023 offseason that I think would add much improvement to our rotation. I question if a Rodon is worth the first round pick you're likely giving up.

Your bottom paragraph contradicts itself but I have a feeling you already knew that. We have 7 guys with decent ceilings in Steele, Thompson, Brown, Wesneski, Horton, Ferris, Wicks and they'll be cheap for awhile. If just 3 of them pan out to be high end starters, you're the Chicago freaking Cubs, you have the money to fund the additional starting spots necessary.
$50 million is a lot of money for 75 innings.

Do you think Javier Assad is a future rotational piece?
 

ISUCubswin

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I'm not sure what is more unrealistic. The Cubs getting Ohtani and Degrom or a rotation of Ohtani, Degrom, Steele, Stroman, and Hendricks only winning 80 games
 

ISUCubswin

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$50 million is a lot of money for 75 innings.

Do you think Javier Assad is a future rotational piece?
I sure hope he is. Another great example of a player who came out of nowhere and is putting up incredible statistics.

Carter Hawkins does not get enough credit for what this franchise has done with its pitchers just over the course of the last year.
 
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Rabbuk

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$50 million is a lot of money for 75 innings.

Do you think Javier Assad is a future rotational piece?
I don't know if I have seen Assad throw a breaking ball in the few innings I've seen him pitch. I feel like he has some kind of cutter and a 4 seam, but I admit I usually watch the cubs as background noise while I do other work
 

GoHawks

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I don't know if I have seen Assad throw a breaking ball in the few innings I've seen him pitch. I feel like he has some kind of cutter and a 4 seam, but I admit I usually watch the cubs as background noise while I do other work
I've only seen the impressive box score albeit very limited sample size so this is more info than I have at moment
 

ISUCubswin

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I don't know if I have seen Assad throw a breaking ball in the few innings I've seen him pitch. I feel like he has some kind of cutter and a 4 seam, but I admit I usually watch the cubs as background noise while I do other work
This is a fun little site that breaks that kind of information down.

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/javier-assad-665871?stats=statcast-r-pitching-mlb

TL;DR - Slider 7%, Curve and Change 6% each. Everything else is either fast, sinker, or cutter.
 
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CyJack13

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I would easily offer him a $50 million one year deal. There isn't another starting pitcher in the 2023 offseason that I think would add much improvement to our rotation. I question if a Rodon is worth the first round pick you're likely giving up.

Your bottom paragraph contradicts itself but I have a feeling you already knew that. We have 7 guys with decent ceilings in Steele, Thompson, Brown, Wesneski, Horton, Ferris, Wicks and they'll be cheap for awhile. If just 3 of them pan out to be high end starters, you're the Chicago freaking Cubs, you have the money to fund the additional starting spots necessary.

DeGrom isn’t signing a $50M one year deal, he’s going to get long term deals in the $35/40M per year range.

Also I don’t see how my paragraph contradicts itself at all. Using those innings to evaluate internal options is a better use of the available innings than signing a free agent for one year. Finding out if any of those guys are viable starters puts them in a better position going forward.

And forget hoping three become top end guys, if any of them becomes a top end starter, a legit number one guy I would be very happy.
 
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CYdTracked

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It's an interesting situation for sure because it has been a LONG time since the Cubs had any kind of starting pitching prospects in the pipeline that have amounted to anything. The 2016 WS team was constructed by buying pitching to go with the top end positional talent they had but this rebuild should be a little different as they have some guys that could fill the pitching needs and not have to go out and buy several arms. I do think they need to spend on that surefire #1 Ace for the rotation as at the moment I don't think any of the guys in the system are going to be of that caliber but could turn into good middle to back end rotation guys. Maybe 1 of them surprises us, its too soon to tell. If you look at that 2016 rotation Lester was the big piece they brough in 1st, they traded for Arrieta during a sell off and got him because he couldn't throw strikes for the Orioles, Hendricks was a prospect that came from the Dempster trade if I recall and Lackey was a free agent signing at the tail end of his career. There really were not a lot of home grown guys on that pitching staff, Hendricks and Carl Edwards Jr were basically it.

Just need to be smart about it and not trade or sign for some marginal guy like we did when we traded for Quintana in 2017 thinking he could be a top half of the rotation guy. The Cubs have options internally already to fill the back half of the rotation but Stroman and Hendricks are not #1 guys and I'm not even certain either are #2 guys on a good team either. It's Hendricks last year of his contract in 2023 so they could be moving on from him soon too.
 
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CyJack13

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It's an interesting situation for sure because it has been a LONG time since the Cubs had any kind of starting pitching prospects in the pipeline that have amounted to anything. The 2016 WS team was constructed by buying pitching to go with the top end positional talent they had but this rebuild should be a little different as they have some guys that could fill the pitching needs and not have to go out and buy several arms. I do think they need to spend on that surefire #1 Ace for the rotation as at the moment I don't think any of the guys in the system are going to be of that caliber but could turn into good middle to back end rotation guys. Maybe 1 of them surprises us, its too soon to tell. If you look at that 2016 rotation Lester was the big piece they brough in 1st, they traded for Arrieta during a sell off and got him because he couldn't throw strikes for the Orioles, Hendricks was a prospect that came from the Dempster trade if I recall and Lackey was a free agent signing at the tail end of his career. There really were not a lot of home grown guys on that pitching staff, Hendricks and Carl Edwards Jr were basically it.

Just need to be smart about it and not trade or sign for some marginal guy like we did when we traded for Quintana in 2017 thinking he could be a top half of the rotation guy. The Cubs have options internally already to fill the back half of the rotation but Stroman and Hendricks are not #1 guys and I'm not even certain either are #2 guys on a good team either. It's Hendricks last year of his contract in 2023 so they could be moving on from him soon too.

If you look at the Cubs top prospect lists from 2015-17, two things really jump out. The almost historic amount of position player talent, not just the top end type of talent that came up but the depth too, the Vogelbach's, Caratini's, Candelario's. Guys that didn't turn into stars, but became long term MLB guys. It's not normal to have position player after position player into the 20's and 30's of a teams prospect list all stick in the majors.

The other thing, is their complete inability to develop any pitching internally. Duane Underwood, Pierce Johnson, Bryan Hudson, Jake Stinnet, Oscar De la Cruz, Thomas Hatch, they missed on pitcher after pitcher. Forget developing top end guys, that weren't even able to develop 4th/5th starter types or back end bull pen guys. Carl Edwards was the one exception, Dylan Cease made it but that was after being traded and now Steele is showing promise. Not having solid pitching options internally puts a lot of stress on needing to nail free agent signings to bolster the rotation, and when you start missing on guys like Chatwood, or have to part with high level talent to acquire mid-rotation pitching, that competitive window can close quickly.
 
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