*** Official #18 Texas Tech vs IOWA STATE Game(Day) Thread ***

[madguy30]

Finally someone other than me said it.. Tyrese-Wigginton-THT and Shayok should have been starting and getting a majority of the minutes with Babb being the first/second guy off the bench.

There were gifs posted at some point of Wiggs totally flaking out on defense and that was likely why he struggled to start.

If he was working on that aspect and CSP just couldn't make the change, then that's another deal because obviously his talent was high enough.

OR CSP needed to pick a strength and let the team operate at what works best which is something he seems to struggle with.

 

[CascadeClone]

Solomon has been developed fine. Without his injury history i bet he'd be all big 12 by now. Mostly correct otherwise, although who are the 4 year bigs prohm has even signed? Simeon Carter, flop. Cam Lard, flop due to non basketball reasons. Luke Anderson, huge flop. Conditt... not looking good. Id argue though, that Steve hasn't really developed period, regardless of position. He has done well with guys that came in ready. But if it's fringe talent, guys like Lewis, Long, Grill, Griffin, and who knows, probably this entire 2020 class, he has a really hard time pulling that talent out.

Totally disagree. The only thing improved about Solo since he was a freshman is he can now hit a 15ft jumper. His footwork is still clumsy and his rebounding might actually be worse. And I don't blame Solo for any of that.

Also, mismanaging the player psychology part of coaching (eg Lard) is also a coaching failure. Was Royce White any less of a head case than Cam Lard?

Also, trying to use natural rim runner bigs (McKay, Conditt) as traditional 1950s centers (Jared Homan) is a terrible concept he keeps forcing. That's done no good for anyone either.

We could write a novel about all the things CSP gets wrong... he should go back to being an asst coach somewhere. Not only for ISU, but for himself, to be successful again. The guy has to be miserable, in over his head and he knows it. He is gonna have a breakdown.

 

[CYEATHAWK]

Maybe CSP at the beginning tried too hard to be Fred.....be liked. And no one was going to duplicate what Fred did. Even today at Nebraska......Fred can't duplicate Fred. The stuff that happened here was lightning in a bottle. Now, six years later CSP is trying to get his own identity and I guess he has the rest of the season to try. We'll see......but I'm no longer confident.

 

[Cyinthenorth]

There were gifs posted at some point of Wiggs totally flaking out on defense and that was likely why he struggled to start.

If he was working on that aspect and CSP just couldn't make the change, then that's another deal because obviously his talent was high enough.

OR CSP needed to pick a strength and let the team operate at what works best which is something he seems to struggle with.

Wigginton might be one of the more disappointing players of Prohm's tenure honestly. He was just dripping with potential and flashed it a lot, but just didn't seem to want to put in the work to become great. A guy who wanted to be the first NBA player from Nova Scotia bailed on his best chance to get there after 2 mostly underwhelming seasons.

 

[great2baclone]

This has absolutely nothing to do with the thread, but anybody hear CW on the Pod with Blum last night or this morning? It's possible many agree with him and that is fine. CW stated Monte' Morris was best PG in history of ISU basketball. I respectfully disagree. He did qualify that statement by stating Jamaal Tinsley was a different deal maybe referring to him only being a 2 year guy? I love Monte! I know CW does and maybe a slight bias due to him being able to cover him, and being around when Monte was lighting it up. However, Jamaal is hands down the best PG in Iowa State history. He accomplished everything Monte did in 2 years. All American, Big 12 New Comer of the Year, Big 12 Player of the year, undefeated vs KU, and 1st rd NBA draft Pick. Thoughts? Maybe wrong thread for this, but still.

 

[Halincandenza]

Wigginton might be one of the more disappointing players of Prohm's tenure honestly. He was just dripping with potential and flashed it a lot, but just didn't seem to want to put in the work to become great. A guy who wanted to be the first NBA player from Nova Scotia bailed on his best chance to get there after 2 mostly underwhelming seasons.

I totally disagree. I think if you thought of him as a true PG he was underwhelming but he was a scoring guard and in that he excelled. He improved from his freshman year even missing all that time do to injury. Only disappointment for me was he didn't return for another year.

 

[Cyinthenorth]

Totally disagree. The only thing improved about Solo since he was a freshman is he can now hit a 15ft jumper. His footwork is still clumsy and his rebounding might actually be worse. And I don't blame Solo for any of that.

Also, mismanaging the player psychology part of coaching (eg Lard) is also a coaching failure. Was Royce White any less of a head case than Cam Lard?

Also, trying to use natural rim runner bigs (McKay, Conditt) as traditional 1950s centers (Jared Homan) is a terrible concept he keeps forcing. That's done no good for anyone either.

We could write a novel about all the things CSP gets wrong... he should go back to being an asst coach somewhere. Not only for ISU, but for himself, to be successful again. The guy has to be miserable, in over his head and he knows it. He is gonna have a breakdown.

It seems like he has worked on his post moves and footwork quite a bit since his FR year, and besides, I kind of doubt he was brought in to be a true 5. So I think he has come a long pretty well. I do agree and have always been baffled at his rebounding struggles. It's not for a lack of athleticism either, but I wonder if injuries have hampered that aspect of his game a bit. It is too bad he never quite developed a 3 pt shot.

Cam was a bust, and I do pin that on Steve. Do not like at all what he has done with the position since he's been here. Watching Conditt try to back into a smaller (shorter) opponent on Saturday and fail to move him at all was very sad and pathetic looking.

That said, and to be honest, this position was weak at ISU under Fred, too. Always the glaring black hole on his teams. Just can't seem to get legit big bodies to Ames. McKay was a legit 6'9'' but he was tiny. Cam was probably the best "big" prospect to actually commit that we have had in over 10 years, and he came with too much baggage to last.

 

[Halincandenza]

This has absolutely nothing to do with the thread, but anybody hear CW on the Pod with Blum last night or this morning? It's possible many agree with him and that is fine. CW stated Monte' Morris was best PG in history of ISU basketball. I respectfully disagree. He did qualify that statement by stating Jamaal Tinsley was a different deal maybe referring to him only being a 2 year guy? I love Monte! I know CW does and maybe a slight bias due to him being able to cover him, and being around when Monte was lighting it up. However, Jamaal is hands down the best PG in Iowa State history. He accomplished everything Monte did in 2 years. All American, Big 12 New Comer of the Year, Big 12 Player of the year, and 1st NBA draft Pick. Thoughts? Maybe wrong thread for this, but still.

I agree. I would also put Hornacek above him.

 

[Cyinthenorth]

I totally disagree. I think if you thought of him as a true PG he was underwhelming but he was a scoring guard and in that he excelled. He improved from his freshman year even missing all that time do to injury. Only disappointment for me was he didn't return for another year.

Halfway into his FR season I saw the writing on the wall that he would not end up a PG. I am going off his overall attitude, negative body language he had his entire SO year and his god awful defense. He could have been a great defender but he didn't want to try on that end of the court. It was like 4 on 5 out there when the other team had the ball. I would have liked to see him come back for another year or even 2 (he'd be here now, still) and work on improving his game, but he struck me as someone who knew he was ultra-talented and didn't think he needed to put any work in. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Clonefan32]

Steve didn't see it coming.... I must be a genius, cuz I did and won money.

It's no coincidence that we always struggle with Texas Tech. They are essentially the anthesis of us. They always play hard, play with passion, and put focus on defense and rebounding. They have a coach that demands effort and attention to detail, and recruits players who fit that mold.

We have...basically whatever the opposite of all that is. We have the end result when you recruit without a plan, coach without a plan and play without a plan. Just a bunch of mismatched pieces that don't belong together that get little to no actual instruction.

I mean, it is what it is. Fire him. Don't fire him. Whatever. He's dug a hole that can't be filled in quickly. It's a multi year rebuild whether it's him or someone else. The damage is done and all momentum we built from Fred is long, long gone.

 

[Thompsonclone]

There were gifs posted at some point of Wiggs totally flaking out on defense and that was likely why he struggled to start.

If he was working on that aspect and CSP just couldn't make the change, then that's another deal because obviously his talent was high enough.

OR CSP needed to pick a strength and let the team operate at what works best which is something he seems to struggle with.

Wigginton was a horrible defender. Go back and watch the WVU game though where a guy who averaged 6 points dropped over 30 on Babb. Babb was the king of closing out slowly with his hands down.

Babb was a solid player and could have been a great option off the bench. I just think if this team wanted to reach its fullest potential, Haliburton, Wigginton, Shayok and THT should have been starting and getting a majority of the minutes. They were our 4 most talented guys and your 4 most talented guys should be your starters and leaders in minutes.

 

[Cyinthenorth]

It's no coincidence that we always struggle with Texas Tech. They are essentially the anthesis of us. They always play hard, play with passion, put focus on defense and rebounding. They have a coach that demands effort and attention to detail, and recruits players who fit that mold.

We have...basically whatever the opposite of all that is. We have the end result when you recruit without a plan, coach without a plan and play without a plan. Just a bunch of mismatched pieces that don't belong together that get little to no actual instruction.

I mean, it is what it is. Fire him. Don't fire him. Whatever. He's dug a hole that can't be filled in quickly. It's a multi year rebuild whether it's him or someone else. The damage is done and all momentum we built from Fred is long, long gone.

This paragraph right here encapsulates my feelings as well. To a T actually. The rebuild will be long and tedious. A new regime would at least breathe some fresh life into the fan base, but like you said, it will take some time regardless. We are TCU levels of bad, circa 2012-2016

 

[CYEATHAWK]

It's no coincidence that we always struggle with Texas Tech.

If by "always" you mean the 2 games last season and last weekend I would agree. Because before that we were 5-2 against them under CSP. So yes.....recently it has been a struggle......but not "always". Which.....is the case for men's basketball in general and why everyone is upset.

 

[CYEATHAWK]

I mean, it is what it is. Fire him. Don't fire him. Whatever. He's dug a hole that can't be filled in quickly. It's a multi year rebuild whether it's him or someone else. The damage is done and all momentum we built from Fred is long, long gone.

This is correct. Before the last game I would have argued one side against another. Now.......if he resigned today I wouldn't be upset. On the flip side if he is the one to dig out of this hole.....I won't be upset either. As for Fred........I don't think he could have kept up his own momentum. Don't think it would have sunk this low however so would have been easier to recover. We will see.

 

[Cyrealist]

This paragraph right here encapsulates my feelings as well. To a T actually. The rebuild will be long and tedious. A new regime would at least breathe some fresh life into the fan base, but like you said, it will take some time regardless. We are TCU levels of bad, circa 2012-2016

I can't watch them anymore. It's just too hard to watch basketball with that poor of coaching. It's even hard to listen to the announcers try to cover us as though we were an actual basketball team. I don't know why anyone would ever think Prohm can ever turn this around. Fire him yesterday and let one of the assistants take over. It can't be any worse.

 

[Clonefan32]

I can't watch them anymore. It's just too hard to watch basketball with that poor of coaching. It's even hard to listen to the announcers try to cover us as though we were an actual basketball team. I don't know why anyone would ever think Prohm can ever turn this around. Fire him yesterday and let one of the assistants take over. It can't be any worse.

It was actually somewhat comedic to listen to Heft and John commentate that game. I missed alot of the first half, but listening to them in the second half try to make it interesting.

My favorite was Heft had to pick a "First Half MVP" for some sponsored promotion and his line was something like "I have to go with Solo, who played well for the first 4 or so minutes that this game was interesting."

 

[Clonefan32]

If by "always" you mean the 2 games last season and last weekend I would agree. Because before that we were 5-2 against them under CSP. So yes.....recently it has been a struggle......but not "always". Which.....is the case for men's basketball in general and why everyone is upset.

I guess the last 2 drubbings caused me to misremember. And I think my larger point is more about the variance in styles. Beard has his team so locked in, so focused, so intense. It just exacerbates just how not locked in, not focused and not intense we are.

 

[pulse]

This has absolutely nothing to do with the thread, but anybody hear CW on the Pod with Blum last night or this morning? It's possible many agree with him and that is fine. CW stated Monte' Morris was best PG in history of ISU basketball. I respectfully disagree. He did qualify that statement by stating Jamaal Tinsley was a different deal maybe referring to him only being a 2 year guy? I love Monte! I know CW does and maybe a slight bias due to him being able to cover him, and being around when Monte was lighting it up. However, Jamaal is hands down the best PG in Iowa State history. He accomplished everything Monte did in 2 years. All American, Big 12 New Comer of the Year, Big 12 Player of the year, and 1st rd NBA draft Pick. Thoughts? Maybe wrong thread for this, but still.

You are right. Tinsley is the best point guard, and that is really saying something because of how great Monte is. One thing that makes me sad is that we only got to see THT for 1 year. I would have loved to see his college progression, he would have been incredible.

 

[CyBobby]

The reason csp will always struggle with Chris Beard's teams is that they can Play Great Defense and Rebound like Demons....

Like I said before...None of our players, could ever play for Larry E... Because None can REBOUND OR PLAY DEFENSE!

 

[RoseClone]

This has absolutely nothing to do with the thread, but anybody hear CW on the Pod with Blum last night or this morning? It's possible many agree with him and that is fine. CW stated Monte' Morris was best PG in history of ISU basketball. I respectfully disagree. He did qualify that statement by stating Jamaal Tinsley was a different deal maybe referring to him only being a 2 year guy? I love Monte! I know CW does and maybe a slight bias due to him being able to cover him, and being around when Monte was lighting it up. However, Jamaal is hands down the best PG in Iowa State history. He accomplished everything Monte did in 2 years. All American, Big 12 New Comer of the Year, Big 12 Player of the year, undefeated vs KU, and 1st rd NBA draft Pick. Thoughts? Maybe wrong thread for this, but still.

I think you are 100% spot on. Maybe CW doesn't consider Tinsley played in his definition of "modern era." I also believe Tinsley is the best PG to play at ISU.