So you may end up forfeiting all your assets to the government and then get sent off to prison?
Morality
- Thread starter alaskaguy
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So you may end up forfeiting all your assets to the government and then get sent off to prison?
Only if the amount of tax due plus penalty and interest were greater than all your assets. And you still might not get prison. I would say in most cases no prison except for the most extreme cases.
Nope. It's not that easy. You gotta do the work yourself, to make it meaningful. (Though I gotta say that "Feed the Children" does a pretty good job, as well as "Cono Christian School" of Walker, Iowa:wink
Well, then you'd be wrong. The overwhelming majority of America's poor is poor because of bad decision, and as a statistical group, they abuse drugs, alcohol and tobacco at an extremely high rate. And, oh yeah, they are the biggest "customers" of lotteries. They also own two cars, multiple TVs, have cable, and eat at restaurants more often than "wealthy" people. So tell me why they cannot feed their kids, again???
See the above. Refuse to pay your taxes, they will come to take you to prison. Refuse to go to prison, they will shoot you. And they have.
There you go again. Are you not smart enough to distinguish between "giving" and "having your stuff taken?" If so, that would explain your support for liberal policies.
Actually, the Government can legally start wars and wage them. They are ENTITLED to take your money to start wars. They aren't ENTITLED to steal your money to give to another person just because they're too stupid/lazy to take care of themselves. The Constitution does not support a federal welfare system. And they aren't "your" taxes.
My "hostility" is directed toward the legal "thieves" in government, and the "citizens" who, like you, support their thievery. I think that one of us has enough "hostility" to stalk the other's posts, and I don't see me stalking yours. (Post-stalking is when you drag subjects into unrelated subjects, and last time I checked, it was against this forum's rules.)
"There you go again!" as Ronald Reagan would say.
In reading your rather arbitrary observations, herbie, it seems to me that you don't really believe the poor in America are really poor. Nor do the "poor", as you describe them, meet your standards of morality. The implication, as I see it, is that these "poor" do not deserve any compassion from that generous heart of gold that is beating out there somewhere in Germany.
Am I reading you right?
Do you really care? about the poor, that is.
Yeah right. I sincerely ask for a list of the charities he gives to because he has claimed that they actually give to the needy. Instead, he gives out some garbage that I need to do my own work. If he was truly interested in helping the charities he claims to help, he would let me know what they are. I was planning on possibly making some donations, although I usually make my contributions to my church and directly to those in need or to our local Food Pantry.
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink. I would love to see how much money our country spends each year in tax dollars and charitable contributions to our "poor people". I would wager that there is more than enough assistance per person to lift every single one above the poverty line if used in a responsible manner. However, it isn't. Give a man a fish, feed him for a day, teach a man to fish, feed him for life. The problem with many people is they feel "entitled" to their "entitlements" and don't feel like they should have to do anything further on their own, because their existence and well being is a right. Well, sorry, but it isn't. Where you end up in life is a direct result of your actions. Consistently good decisions, maintained over a long period of time, will almost inevitably lead to success. There is no substitute for instilling a sense of individual responsibility in a person, and if anything, this is what we should be doing.
Pretty hard to fish without a pole or some bait. A good boat would help too.
Where you end up in life, can largely be determined by what station you are born into. Born into privilege and wealth, you can be a non-achiever and still be wealthy and given opportunities for success. Born into poverty and subsistence, sometimes it talkes your full efforts just to avoid starvation and a roof over your head. I don't like hand outs. But a helping hand up is a good thing.
From the bolded statement above, I would say our world views are polar opposites, but our solutions are not. Give them a pole, give them bait, teach them to fish, but do not give them the fish, as it is only a temporary solution.
Read. My. Post. I give two good examples of charities that are worthy. Cono School in Walker, Iowa, and Feed The Children.
You'll also note I asked what percentage YOU give of your total income. The $5 or $20 dollars you give at Christmas time and whenever your white, upper-middle-class guilt hits you is nothing.
But, I'm assuming you're too lazy to do even a little research, like most "minimum, sap to your conscience givers".
And, I will say again, I was raised in Poverty, and had the occasion to raise a family of four for 5 years under the poverty line during the late 90s. I have been poor, and did it without gov't assistance.
And, to Mr. Tremain, the US has the wealthiest "poor" in the history of human existence. If you do not believe that, I do not believe there is anything I can do to educate you otherwise, out of your world-view.
"Feed a member of the US 'poor' a fish, and he/she will eat for a day, give them a fishing pole, and they'll sell it for cigarettes and booze."
Since you have an opportunity for first hand observations, I'm wondering if you think the poor in Germany are worse off than the poor in the US? Any comparison or insights would be appreciated.
People under the poverty line can still usually afford a cell phone, car, cable tv, air conditioning. Perhaps that is similar to other developed nations, but in the world as a whole, that is the lap of luxury.
I agree that poverty in the United States is more softly defined than what would constitute as poverty in, for example, Haiti. Nevertheless, I was taken aback somewhat about how much some of our fellow compassionate conservative posters seem to know about the relative affluence of America's poor. My suspicion is that it is not from their personal associations nor of their personal experiences.
I think I have stumbled on their source of information on America's poor. From the Heritage Foundation, of course, one of our premier right-wing think tanks. Link: How Poor Are America's Poor? Examining the "Plague" of Poverty in America
The majority of what is published in the Heritage paper are gross oversimplifications and some obsfucations. For example, the subject: Poverty and Obesity. The Heritage article fails to state that obesity of the poor in America is, in part, caused by their overconsumption of starchy foods products. That is their primary food group. Starch food products cost much less when compared to the costs of more healthier foods, that is: fruits, vegtables, meat, and dairy products.
More reading, if interested, on the poor in America: The Working Poor: Invisible in America by David K. Shipler and Nickel and Dimed: On (Not) Getting By in America by Barbara Ehrenreich.
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I agree with you that poverty is a problem in America. But in America, it is more a poverty of mind, than a physical poverty. And a certain amount of the poor, and their children, can be "educated" out of poverty. When I was recovering from my head injury, and working menial jobs, I made a point of trying to educate those who would listen, on how they could exit the state of poverty they were in. Few were willing to do what it took. It was "hard" you see, and they weren't particularly interested in doing anything "hard". So, you see where my contempt for the "American Poor" lies. Very, very few were "trapped" in their situation, other than in their own minds.
Part of the obesity problem isn't just the starch, it's the really expensive mostly fried restaurant foods that they HAVE to have. Cabbage is still pretty darned cheap. So are beans. There are lots of really, really cheap meat products, but poor people's tastes, in general, happen to match fast food restaurants' menus. Poor people also tend to have poor impulse control, and that means they tend to overeat. It's a vicious circle, really.
In general, their lives are built on "quick and easy" choices. I don't think any "conventional" anti-poverty "programs" will do anything to lift any American from poverty. More education, possibly.
My wife and I could not have lived below the poverty line, without government assistance, in Germany. The "guaranteed living wage", plus the 19% consumption tax inflates the price of everything to the point that the "living wage" is really insufficient to live on. We could've afforded to shop at Aldi's for (low quality) food, but energy costs and the cost of an apartment would've forced us onto the dole.
Germans are blessed with an institutional paranoia against borrowing money, though, which takes the costs of financing out of a lot of things.
The "safety net" in Germany is pretty good, in that you have to try pretty hard to be malnourished, if you are willing to accept gov't assistance. However, if you are middle class or below, it is a harsh flipping place to try to live. Or if you run a small business. The smaller businesses are being absolutely crushed by the taxes/wages they are forced to pay by the gov't. Small town Germany is just about dead, compared to 1988.
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This leads directly into one of my favorite topics: farm subsidies. We overproduce starchy food ingredients due to a misguided farm subsidy system, and its effects are extremely insidious, including the one you mention.
I have read Ehrenreich's book, and strongly second that recommendation. (It is certainly much more enlightening than the Heritage Foundation report.)
I think that is a pretty fair comparison, but my impression is that most Germans don't view accepting government help as a negative when you’re poor. It's just part of life.
Also, I haven’t been to Germany since ’99, but your last statement made me sad. Small towns used to be the best part of Germany.
This sounds like as good as any place to plug Rotary. I encourage everyone to consider becoming a Rotarian. There are clubs world-wide. My brother has attended meetings in Baku and Nairobi. I regularly attend meetings in Nome, Alaska (I am the club President).
But I don't have time to write more on Rotary since I need to leave to go serve rib dinners on behalf of Rotary at the Nome Fireman's Carnival (an annual event that raises funds for our volunteer fire department).
Link:
Rotary.org:
Elim Christian Center - Poland
Elim Christian Center in Poland: We donate to the orphanage.
Feed The Children:
Their numbers on overhead vs. money spent on "feeding children" appear to be straight.
Cono Christian Boarding School
Cono takes an admixture of "troubled youth", orphans, and the children of the "trapped poor" and gives them a world-class education, all in the midst of rural Iowa. They also take donations of labor, which points to their "genuine-ness".
Give Children A Chance - Home
I sit on the board of directors for this one, and they have ZERO administrative costs. It is a volunteer only organization and 100% of the money goes to the Afghanis, or you can target your donation to the families of wounded or killed servicemembers.
Military Community Youth Ministries | Home
I tend to donate my time, more than money to this one, but they get a piece of our donation pie as well. Their service projects are oriented toward taking the children of deployed soldiers somewhere exotic, and working their butts off in order to help others. It's a cool program, but their admin costs are (necessarily) higher than what I'd usually support.
Thanks for the opportunity to promote these deserving groups.
There's a few others, but I don't have my records within 100 miles of me, and I'm working off of memory, here.
Elim Christian Center in Poland: We donate to the orphanage.
Feed The Children:
Their numbers on overhead vs. money spent on "feeding children" appear to be straight.
Cono Christian Boarding School
Cono takes an admixture of "troubled youth", orphans, and the children of the "trapped poor" and gives them a world-class education, all in the midst of rural Iowa. They also take donations of labor, which points to their "genuine-ness".
Give Children A Chance - Home
I sit on the board of directors for this one, and they have ZERO administrative costs. It is a volunteer only organization and 100% of the money goes to the Afghanis, or you can target your donation to the families of wounded or killed servicemembers.
Military Community Youth Ministries | Home
I tend to donate my time, more than money to this one, but they get a piece of our donation pie as well. Their service projects are oriented toward taking the children of deployed soldiers somewhere exotic, and working their butts off in order to help others. It's a cool program, but their admin costs are (necessarily) higher than what I'd usually support.
Thanks for the opportunity to promote these deserving groups.
There's a few others, but I don't have my records within 100 miles of me, and I'm working off of memory, here.
