Jamaal Tinsley opinion..

[Pharmacy99]

I am sorry but this is one of the single most “wrong” posts I’ve ever seen on this board comparing Cyclone greats. Hali isn’t in the same universe as Mel Mel The Abuser as a ball handler. At his peak, Jamaal was widely considered the best ball handler in professional basketball. Absolute elite ball handler and passer. There are clips out there of all time greats putting JT up there with all-time legends. Isaiah Thomas - who some claim is the best dribbler ever - coached Jamaal and couldn’t believe the things JT could do. He truly was THAT good as a dribbler. The debate vs. Kyrie is interesting and the younger generation obviously won’t “know” the true depth of Jamaal’s legend because there’s just not enough tape/exposure. Honestly even the YouTube clips don’t even do Jamaal justice. And the key differentiator is Tinsley wasn’t a world class athlete like Kyrie. So while Kyrie can absolutely do things that no other guard on the planet can do, he is ABLE do to those things because of his impressive athleticism and quick twitch muscle. Jamal had to use world class craftiness and streetball techniques to consistently make plays, and he did this at every level. Jamaal is THE reason for 99-01 success. A top 5 (maybe top 3) player to ever play at Iowa State. Yes, he was that f*cking good. A New York street ball legend.

He is a Cyclone legend but he is no where close to Haliburton. Has Tinsley ever been an NBA all star? Willed his team to the NBA final? Lead the league in assists? If Tinsley is the best ball handler in the history of NBA, why was he so turnover prone in college and NBA? Or why wasn’t he able create shots off the dribble like Haliburton?

 

[madguy30]

He is a Cyclone legend but he is no where close to Haliburton. Has Tinsley ever been an NBA all star? Willed his team to the NBA final? Lead the league in assists? If Tinsley is the best ball handler in the history of NBA, why was he so turnover prone in college and NBA? Or why wasn’t he able create shots off the dribble like Haliburton?

These aren't the same thing as handling the basketball.

I'll take Tracy McGrady word on at least mentioning JT.

Since he didn't mention Hali I'm not sure how he's in the conversation.

 

[Pharmacy99]

These aren't the same thing as handling the basketball.

I'll take Tracy McGrady word on at least mentioning JT.

Since he didn't mention Hali I'm not sure how he's in the conversation.

McGrady didn’t play with Haliburton. He is a player from different era.

 

[madguy30]

McGrady didn’t play with Haliburton. He is a player from different era.

Why is Hali a part of the conversation though and how is one so sure he can do the same things dribbling since he doesn't?

 

[vdub4cy]

I love Hali, but until he can go left as well as he can right, he isn't a better ball handler than JT. TH has amazing vision and is a far better shooter, but his handles are a 7 or 8 and JT was a 10.

 

[isufbcurt]

When I was playing football there was an Athletic Trainer who came to ISU from Arizona. One day in the training facility after being at numerous basketball practices he was talking about how Tinsley was the best ball handler he'd ever seen and then started naming all the players from Arizona he'd been around that Tinsley was better than. I thought that was quite the endorsement.

 

[HFCS]

When I was playing football there was an Athletic Trainer who came to ISU from Arizona. One day in the training facility after being at numerous basketball practices he was talking about how Tinsley was the best ball handler he'd ever seen and then started naming all the players from Arizona he'd been around that Tinsley was better than. I thought that was quite the endorsement.

One night my friends and I were drunk after bars and we went to that gas station on Welch. They wouldn’t let us use the bathroom.

Tinsley was in there and goes “they’re cool, they’re with me”. Instant bathroom access, Tinsley didn’t even know any of us.

That’s a legend!

 

[VeloClone]

He is a Cyclone legend but he is no where close to Haliburton. Has Tinsley ever been an NBA all star? Willed his team to the NBA final? Lead the league in assists? If Tinsley is the best ball handler in the history of NBA, why was he so turnover prone in college and NBA? Or why wasn’t he able create shots off the dribble like Haliburton?

As far as being an All Star - Shaq was an All Star more times than Hali, does that mean Shaq had a better handle than Haliburton does?

Shaq willed his team to multiple finals. Does that mean he has a better handle than Haliburton?

Lebron led the league in assists one year. That must mean he has as good of a handle as Tyrese.

Did you watch Tinsley play ever? Did you watch the videos posted in this thread. What makes you think he wasn't able to create shots off the dribble? Also Tinsley was (generously listed at 6'3" but was measured at 6'2" at the combine; Hali is listed and was measured at the combine at 6'5" and has very long arms. That makes a huge difference in getting a shot off in traffic.

You don't have to hate one player to appreciate another. You can appreciate multiple former Cyclones without tearing them down.

 

[VeloClone]

He was an underrated defender too.

I loved that often early in a game Tinsley would seeming let his guy by him at the basket only to block the shot from behind. I think it made a lot players "hear footsteps" for the rest of the game never really sure if they had truly gotten by Mel and they would often rush shots or make the shot tougher fearing another block.

 

[Raywswartz]

Tyrese as a passer is as elite as Tinsley was as a ball handler. We just didn’t get to see it long enough here at ISU. It sucks this injury will throw his career in doubt but I wouldn’t have been surprised to see Haliburton as a top five of all time passer.

tinsley was an elite passer as well. He just took more chances and turned it over more than tyrese.

 

[Raywswartz]

I completely disagree. Tinsley often played with unnecessary flash and took risks against weaker competition. The best ball handler, without question, is Haliburton. Just watch the shots he created off the dribble during the playoffs—Tinsley never showed that level of control or creativity in high-stakes games. True ball handling is about breaking down defenses and generating offense for yourself or your teammates while minimizing turnovers. No one in the NBA does that better than Haliburton.

He was high risk high reward. But JT was the best PG this school has seen. Hornecek would be next. JT played two years and won league out right twice. 2nd year was without fizer .

 

[HFCS]

tinsley was an elite passer as well. He just took more chances and turned it over more than tyrese.

Even on "flash" Tyrese is one of the best I've ever seen like Magic, Pistol and Joker. It's not like he is just a steady take care of the ball guy like Monte was for us or a Stockton in the NBA. I think he's a better passer than Tinsley both results and style points. Other than Jokic he's the best full court passer in the world too.

Basically he gives you the Tinsley wow but with the Monte assist/TO ratio. Then his "jump pass" is a straight up statistical revolution or anomaly statistically, we'll see in a few years if there are lots of PGs doing it.

 

[NWICY]

Only Fizer's junior season was better. Royce is underrated. It hasn't been that long and people already forget how dominant he was for Hoiberg that year.

I don't think people have forgotten Royce, it's just that we've had a lot of good players both before and after him. He was a amazing point/forward for us.

How Fred managed to keep him focused was pretty amazing.

 

[rosshm16]

Jamaal Tinsley never lost to KU.

 

[VeloClone]

Jamaal Tinsley never lost to KU.

And never lost in Hilton.

 

[madguy30]

And never lost in Hilton.

Kind of wild trivia:

A quick search and it looks like his closest wins in Hilton were his senior season:

*11/21/00 Opener vs. Morningside (OT, 102-97)
12/5/00 Southern Miss, 69-67

*They beat Missouri by 5, 86-81 in 99/00 but at least not in OT.

All in all that's dominant.

 

[rosshm16]

I forgot about that Morningside game, that was a crazy game.

 

[Pharmacy99]

As far as being an All Star - Shaq was an All Star more times than Hali, does that mean Shaq had a better handle than Haliburton does?

Shaq willed his team to multiple finals. Does that mean he has a better handle than Haliburton?

Lebron led the league in assists one year. That must mean he has as good of a handle as Tyrese.

Did you watch Tinsley play ever? Did you watch the videos posted in this thread. What makes you think he wasn't able to create shots off the dribble? Also Tinsley was (generously listed at 6'3" but was measured at 6'2" at the combine; Hali is listed and was measured at the combine at 6'5" and has very long arms. That makes a huge difference in getting a shot off in traffic.

You don't have to hate one player to appreciate another. You can appreciate multiple former Cyclones without tearing them down.

Yes, I watched almost every game in 1999-2000 and 2000-2001 seasons Including the debacle against Hampton.

 

[Pharmacy99]

Even on "flash" Tyrese is one of the best I've ever seen like Magic, Pistol and Joker. It's not like he is just a steady take care of the ball guy like Monte was for us or a Stockton in the NBA. I think he's a better passer than Tinsley both results and style points. Other than Jokic he's the best full court passer in the world too.

Basically he gives you the Tinsley wow but with the Monte assist/TO ratio. Then his "jump pass" is a straight up statistical revolution or anomaly statistically, we'll see in a few years if there are lots of PGs doing it.

I couldn’t have said it better. Tinsley was a great college player but he is not at Haliburton’s level. Cyclone fans underrate Haliburton because the team sucked when he was at ISU. He shot better than 50% overall and 40% from 3 pt while averaging more assists and less turnovers than Tinsley in his sophomore year playing for the worst college team in the nation.

 

[deadeyededric]

I couldn’t have said it better. Tinsley was a great college player but he is not at Haliburton’s level. Cyclone fans underrate Haliburton because the team sucked when he was at ISU. He shot better than 50% overall and 40% from 3 pt while averaging more assists and less turnovers than Tinsley in his sophomore year playing for the worst college team in the nation.

Hali is the best basketball player we've had but JT had better handles. Just like Jake Sullivan is the best shooter we ever had.