Is this team tired? Does TJ need to ease up the rest of the way?

ScottyP

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Maybe a little but like last night, as soon as ISU got things going, there were maybe 2-3 possessions with turnovers or hurried shots.
It's apparently really tricky for this group to 'make the simple play' as TJ says.
It almost seems like they are a little too unselfish at times as well. They are so focused on making the extra pass sometimes that they pass up open looks.
 
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madguy30

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This was Oklahoma States first Q1 win of the entire season. The rest of their wins are against the bottom of the Big 12. This is by far the worst loss we've seen since the Pitt game in 2023.

They were having a night but also showed some things like the Ts etc. that bad teams do and were close to maybe teetering but ISU couldn't get out of their own way to take advantage.
 

Klubber

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Other teams don’t seem to run out of gas so it’s logical to wonder why TJ’s teams continue to struggle in February and early March. But as long as this team turns it on in mid and late March, that’s all that really matters. If you aren’t going to win a conference title, nothing else really matters until March.
Actually when you look around college hoops you see quite a few teams this time of year tired and with the tank on "E". Purdue comes to mind. Illinois is another whose play and stock have tumbled. KU as well.

Really every team in the P-4 is fatigued right now. It's a long season and now even longer with the bigger conferences.

But this is where you find out who put in the work before the season in getting in elite shape. Those teams tend to play well in their conference tourneys and beyond. I'm not worried about a late season game or 2 where we look a little fatigued having some starters out. What would worry me is if we look gassed in the Big XII Tourney and 1st Rd NCAA Tourney game. That's when I'd panic.

But I think our guys are probably in better shape than a lot of teams because of our demanding style of play. And I think that'll pay off in the post season provided we have everyone available and fairly close to 100%.
 

not-the-manager

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Do you think the turnover issues get corrected this season? Or is that who we are at this point?
I'm more optimistic than CW, but maybe it's wishful thinking. I think the careless handoffs and other passes at the top of the key can be cut down. Same with indecisive and inaccurate entry passes. Opponents know ISU wants to kickstart sets off the dribble, and are being very physical out there, but if you're patient and decisive enough, those shouldn't be automatic turnovers. easy for me to say, but I think those things are more of a mindset that players can control, before the game. Last night, I think the whole team was mentally on the plane home, thinking even with a C+ game they'd walk away with a win. But we are in crunch time, and I'm sure the staff will hammer that home, i.e., every guy in every pregame locker room should feel a sense of primal desperation, there's no more "managing the schedule" or thinking about how other teams' performances may benefit you. Kansas is a good defense, and ISU had single-digit turnovers in the game in Lawrence. And the ball was still moving okay, so they weren't just dribbling to dribble. Houston was a bit sloppy in the 1H, but they're even better than Kansas and you were really up against a wall roster wise, had a walk on playing real minutes. So, we've seen them play with their heads on straight.

I do think the purposeless drives may just be where they are. Lipsey seems to do it out of exhaustion or desperation (and, really, the two are related), and until everyone is healthy there will be offensive lulls when he's tempted to force something. I'm hoping it was because he was playing hurt, but Gilbert got away from his floater, and was kind of just weakly jumping into post defenders hoping for a foul. He needs to look to score, indecisiveness is when he gets stripped. Jones needs to stop trying to back people down, teams are doubling him and very few college players have the handles to beat a double on their own
 
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Psiclone

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Agreed. The team came out flat last night. It just seemed like they thought they could I show up and win. Focus to detail was not there for the first half. Many sloppy turnovers.

I reviewed the play by play and ISU had 7 turnovers in their first 10 possessions. That alone just illustrates the teams lack of focus entering the game
Agree, maybe overconfident from playing Houston so close without Jones/Gilbert, plus OSU losing by 30 to KU. You'd think they would have learned by now that ISU is the hunted now with the high rankings. Other teams are going to be up for them.
 
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cyfan27

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We know how grueling TJ’s regimen is for his team starting with summer workouts. It’s allowed him to take patchwork teams to 3 straight tourneys including 2 Sweet 16s, with this year’s team ranked in the top 10 all season and seemingly poised to go even further. Unprecedented in the history of ISU basketball, by a ways.

But this team seems tired and starting to crack. Injuries and illness have crept in and there seems to be a lack of joy among the players. This is starting to feel like 2000-2001 which ended badly. I think TJ should back off, give his players some days off the rest of the way, shorten practices and let his guys return to having fun.
Do people realize ISU is 16-16 in February under Otz? Other than last year his record is under 500 in February. It’s combination of talent, strategy, fatigue, and injuries. I also believe his stubbornness of an 8 man rotation can lead to some of the fatigue this time of year. They typically recover and have a good March so I’m not going to overreact.
 

acoustimac

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Sadly…watching this team over the last month reminds me of Eustachy's squad that ran out of gas and face planted in both the Big 12 and NCAA tourney. Not saying that will happen, but it’s what it reminds me of. They are nursing too many injuries that aren’t the kind that heal over night.
 

HFCS

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So the difference between 1 day's rest and 4+ days rest pencils out to less than one game per NBA season.

Yeah the way I read it is one day of rest has true value and more than 3 days of rest is when it basically becomes a push with “rust”.

I can’t find the #s but back to back road games, that second game the road team is usually toast no matter how good they are.

I don’t think college basketball really has that equivalent. Closest thing might be conference tournament where one team had a bye. Especially like ISU or KU where KC is like a home environment.

I’m guessing two road games in 4 days has some of the effect of the nba back to back road games but not as much.
 

CyNews

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The entire Big 12 is playing terrible right now except Houston and BYU. I really think a part of it is this ridiculous schedule. Hopefully they go back to 18 and have a bye week somewhere.
Houston is almost unwatchable on offense at times,in my opinion.
 

Statefan10

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Every team is tired and lots of teams have injuries. That is true. It’s also true that teams go through ebbs and flows throughout the year. We went on a three game losing streak earlier and now we’re on a two game skid.

Dog days of the conference season and playing without key players can hurt you. Then when you sleep walk through a half of basketball at this level you can get humbled. It happens to lots of teams.

The season is not over and some are acting like it is.
 

GoSTATE71

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I mean outside Houston and Auburn, plenty of teams have taken losses. Shoot Florida got smacked by Georgia the other night. My concern is how inconsistent this team can be, and when we look bad it’s usually a total lack of effort. Losing games is fine if you competed and at least tried playing smart. The unforced turnovers are killing us and most of them are stupid like dribbling into double teams and the lane and getting swatted.
 

not-the-manager

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Do people realize ISU is 16-16 in February under Otz? Other than last year his record is under 500 in February. It’s combination of talent, strategy, fatigue, and injuries. I also believe his stubbornness of an 8 man rotation can lead to some of the fatigue this time of year. They typically recover and have a good March so I’m not going to overreact.
This is really interesting. almost goes hand in hand with @VeloClone's fantastic point that perhaps we're looking through the wrong end of the telescope, that Otz teams are slightly (or materially) overperforming the first ~2/3 of seasons, then paying a price due to the effort required. As pessimistic as I've been since Tuesday (and probably still am), they're not trying to lose games in February. And I don't believe his teams suddenly stop giving effort. But the staff is probably aware of this annual lull, which makes me wonder if they're willing to accept the trade-off. After all, you put in most of your work building a résumé November through January
 

not-the-manager

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Otz gave some great answers during media availability today. said the team's physical and mental preparation doesn't change, so the discrepancy in intensity and focus between Houston and Oklahoma State is "inexplicable." But, lest anyone claim the staff is clueless, inept, or all the above, he mentioned that the team gets into trouble when they get too caught up in missed shots and turnovers and allow that frustration to affect their defensive intensity and sharpness. These two comments suggest the coaches don't believe—and therefore don't have reason to believe, since they're the ones in practice, not us—everyone's legs are just dead and the team needs a week off, they suggest it's a much more mental problem (he even said "mental weaknesses") than what we (me included) infer when watching guys move up and down the court
 
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clone37

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I'm more optimistic than CW, but maybe it's wishful thinking. I think the careless handoffs and other passes at the top of the key can be cut down. Same with indecisive and inaccurate entry passes. Opponents know ISU wants to kickstart sets off the dribble, and are being very physical out there, but if you're patient and decisive enough, those shouldn't be automatic turnovers. easy for me to say, but I think those things are more of a mindset that players can control, before the game. Last night, I think the whole team was mentally on the plane home, thinking even with a C+ game they'd walk away with a win. But we are in crunch time, and I'm sure the staff will hammer that home, i.e., every guy in every pregame locker room should feel a sense of primal desperation, there's no more "managing the schedule" or thinking about how other teams' performances may benefit you. Kansas is a good defense, and ISU had single-digit turnovers in the game in Lawrence. And the ball was still moving okay, so they weren't just dribbling to dribble. Houston was a bit sloppy in the 1H, but they're even better than Kansas and you were really up against a wall roster wise, had a walk on playing real minutes. So, we've seen them play with their heads on straight.

I do think the purposeless drives may just be where they are. Lipsey seems to do it out of exhaustion or desperation (and, really, the two are related), and until everyone is healthy there will be offensive lulls when he's tempted to force something. I'm hoping it was because he was playing hurt, but Gilbert got away from his floater, and was kind of just weakly jumping into post defenders hoping for a foul. He needs to look to score, indecisiveness is when he gets stripped. Jones needs to stop trying to back people down, teams are doubling him and very few college players have the handles to beat a double on their own
This exactly. You could tell right away which team showed up on Tuesday. The look in their eyes was one of pure disengagement. The early post passes were very timid and hesistant....the feeder and post were just standing in place hoping to thread a pass in there. Then we just gave up on that and started jacking threes. Look at the great ball movement in the Houston game prior. Basketball is a game where margin can vary widely just based on effort. I expect we will see full effort in the AZ game and a win.
 

cycloneworld

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I mean outside Houston and Auburn, plenty of teams have taken losses. Shoot Florida got smacked by Georgia the other night. My concern is how inconsistent this team can be, and when we look bad it’s usually a total lack of effort. Losing games is fine if you competed and at least tried playing smart. The unforced turnovers are killing us and most of them are stupid like dribbling into double teams and the lane and getting swatted.

Teams lose, yes. But those teams don't lose to awful teams.

There are 2 total combined Quad 3 losses across the entire Top 20 of the NET and Iowa State has one of them. Plus we had a Quad 2 loss.

There is no sugar coating it - the OSU loss was one of the worst losses of the entire season for good teams.