Horrific foul call in 4A Boys game

[clone52]

Absolutely brutal. But this will continue to happen as long as officials getting to the state tournament is based on popularity rather than merit.

Rather that rehash it all again, I'll copy and paste from an email I shared with friends:

First, from that viewpoint it's a foul that shouldn't be called anyway. Second, if it was while the ball was in flight, the ball becomes dead immediately on an offensive foul and the basket can't be counted. Third, if it's after the ball goes through the hoop, it must be flagrant or intentional or it is to be ignored. Fourth, they had a chance to get together and hash this all out and had an easy out: The foul was with the horn and we're going to OT.

One of the non-calling officials needed to man-up and say no, we're not doing this. They're ALL guilty.

PS: IMO, you ONLY call that foul if that ball comes off the rim and he gets the rebound. Otherwise, NEVER.

Its easy to see/hear from the replay that the foul occurred before the shot went in and before the horn sounded.

So at that time, all the ref under the basket knows is that there is very little time in the game. He doesn't know if there is .5 seconds or 3 seconds or 5 seconds. What you are advocating is that when the refs sees that foul, he should pause 3-5 seconds before blowing the whistle and call the foul. That's what makes bad officials.

 

[J-Diggy]

State tournament refs in every sport are always biased towards Des Moines Schools, particularly Valley.

While this may be true in football it is absolutely not true in basketball. High School refs HATE Horner. Valley played a game at Waukee this year when the fouls were like 30-10 against with the Waukee center shooting 28 free throws by himself. Horner got two Ts and got tossed.

Valley got scheduled a "neutral site" game against Ankeny Centennial this year with a state berth on the line....at Ankeny High, the same school the Centennial players had attended and played at for 3 years.

Last year against Roosevelt with a state tourney bid on the line Jok gets his arms pinned to his sides on the last shot of the game....no call.

The ref that made the call last night was terrible from opening tip to final whistle both ways. About the only thing he did right on that last call was to be emphatic about it. No hesitation. Was it a foul? Yes. Do you see it called very often? No. Was there some grand conspiracy to "Save Valley"? Highly doubt it.

 

[wartknight]

That same dude had about 3 chances to be called for a foul in that short clip. All he did was shove people

 

[ruxCYtable]

Its easy to see/hear from the replay that the foul occurred before the shot went in and before the horn sounded.

So at that time, all the ref under the basket knows is that there is very little time in the game. He doesn't know if there is .5 seconds or 3 seconds or 5 seconds. What you are advocating is that when the refs sees that foul, he should pause 3-5 seconds before blowing the whistle and call the foul. That's what makes bad officials.

I respect your opinion. As an official for 15 years who has worked over 500 varsity games, a significant portion of which have been at the 4A level, patient whistles make good officials. Patient whistles are taught and stressed at officiating camps. An official knowing the situation and being patient PREVENTS this situation from occurring. In no way am I advocating waiting 3-5 seconds, but a half second or even a second is acceptable and even desirable in a situation such as this.

I'm not God's gift to officiating but I promise you if I'd been standing on that baseline last night I would have known the situation and that foul would not have been called.

 

[acoustimac]

I think it's interesting that some think that rules should be suspended in the last seconds of a game. If it's a penalty at any other time why shouldn't it be a penalty in huge last 5 seconds?

 

[Statsman515]

State tournament refs in every sport are always biased towards Des Moines Schools, particularly Valley.

Having said that the officiating in the next game was just as bad. High school refs may just be incompetent as a whole.

So then, pay your regestration fee, take the tests and become an official. Stop griping and do something about it!

 

[Cydwinder]

I respect your opinion. As an official for 15 years who has worked over 500 varsity games, a significant portion of which have been at the 4A level, patient whistles make good officials. Patient whistles are taught and stressed at officiating camps. An official knowing the situation and being patient PREVENTS this situation from occurring. In no way am I advocating waiting 3-5 seconds, but a half second or even a second is acceptable and even desirable in a situation such as this.

I'm not God's gift to officiating but I promise you if I'd been standing on that baseline last night I would have known the situation and that foul would not have been called.

I completely agree. The ref has to know the situation and about how much time is left in the game. The main reason I would not have given a foul in this case is that there was no advantage gained on the play. It didn't affect the shot and because it was good there was no advantage gained in rebounding position.

 

[IcSyU]

Foul? Unquestionably.

Would I have whistled it? Nope.

 

[tec71]

I respect your opinion. As an official for 15 years who has worked over 500 varsity games, a significant portion of which have been at the 4A level, patient whistles make good officials. Patient whistles are taught and stressed at officiating camps. An official knowing the situation and being patient PREVENTS this situation from occurring. In no way am I advocating waiting 3-5 seconds, but a half second or even a second is acceptable and even desirable in a situation such as this.

I'm not God's gift to officiating but I promise you if I'd been standing on that baseline last night I would have known the situation and that foul would not have been called.

I agree with the patient whistle thoughts. I've never officiated basketball but I did high school volleyball for a decade including multiple state championship matches and it kills me when I see officials are in such a hurry that they almost appear to be blowing their whistle and then deciding what to call.

That being said I firmly believe that if it's a violation at the beginning of the game then it should be one at the end of the game. I don't have a clue whether it was a foul or not.

 

[Jaws73]

I also officiate and I agree you 100 per cent. The official should be aware of the situation. I am always slow about blowing my whistle, just a fraction of a second. So as not to anticipate the call... This situation as above no chance for offensive rebound. The defensive rebounder wasn't really displaced. So no call is the right call...

 

[IcSyU]

By the book it's a foul but for me the time left on the clock doesn't matter. I wouldn't call it unless it was malicious at any point in the game. That's normally a "hey, 32, don't do that again" warning.

 

[RoseBowlBound]

The Refs are not biased towards anyone in Iowa High School sports, they just suck. If anything, we experienced worst treatment from officials because they just didn't like a coach or the school in general.

 

[dmclone]

The ref had a better view of the foul than this video.

 

[ruxCYtable]

I completely agree. The ref has to know the situation and about how much time is left in the game. The main reason I would not have given a foul in this case is that there was no advantage gained on the play. It didn't affect the shot and because it was good there was no advantage gained in rebounding position.

You have touched on a very important word: Advantage. They used to teach something called "advantage-disadvantage" officiating. It was based on the premise that all contact is not a foul, contact that creates an advantage is a foul. If there is a little bump or a little hand check but they are able to play through it, play on. I think one problem was people went a little too extreme with it and the game started getting rougher. For me and a lot of the guys I work with, rebounding is still an advantage-disadvantage situation, unless there is just egregious contact. If there's a bump but the inside guy gets the board anyway, we want to play on and not disrupt the flow of the game. If the bump causes the inside guy to travel when he comes down or causes him to lose the ball out of bounds then we have to have a foul. If the bump displaces and the outside guy gets the rebound, we have to have a foul. That situation last night, there was no advantage gained. Now, if that ball comes off the rim and the guy gets the rebound because of that shove, I'm coming in with a foul. That late whistle is going to **** fans off, but most coaches know what's going on and are OK with it.

I agree with the patient whistle thoughts. I've never officiated basketball but I did high school volleyball for a decade including multiple state championship matches and it kills me when I see officials are in such a hurry that they almost appear to be blowing their whistle and then deciding what to call.

That being said I firmly believe that if it's a violation at the beginning of the game then it should be one at the end of the game. I don't have a clue whether it was a foul or not.

When I was young and had aspirations I attended the Big Ten Men's Referee Camp, where I met John Adams, who was then the supervisor of officials for the Horizon League and is now supervisor of officials for the NCAA. He said something to me that has stuck all these years. "Having a quick whistle does not make you a better official. Getting calls right makes you a better official." If it comes down to getting a call right but having a late whistle, I will take that over blowing a call every time.

I also agree with your second comment. While I don't want to call anything ticky-tack at the end of the game, I usually get my guys together during a late timeout and say,"Make it be there and don't guess."