FILM ROOM: Scouting Virginia's pack line defense

1LuckyWaHoo

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Mar 21, 2016
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Our #3 offense against their defense is certainly the sexy matchup - but on the other side of the ball, having watched parts of several games in the last couple days, I'm surprised that they have the efficiency numbers they do on offense. On film it doesn't look that good.

They don't seem to run a lot of high (top of the key) ball screens, if at all. They run a lot of down-screens on the wings, with Brogdon and others popping up from the baseline. Then they will set ball screens on the wing (where we will 'ice' them to the sideline). Then they screen on the backside of the play a lot. It shouldn't be an offense that gets us into switches that cause problems too often.

They run a lot of clock, but the ball and the players are moving the whole time, so focus on defense is a big key.

We won't be able to turn them over very often, and they don't draw a ton of fouls. I don't see us doing anything special on defense, and we probably won't zone unless absolutely necessary.

Their offense almost always runs through Perrantes and Brogdon. Gill is really a garbage man - he'll make a post move now and then, but nothing to worry about. Then the athletic wings - Hall, Wilkins, Thompson, Shayok - have flashes but nothing consistent and nothing that seems 'planned'. These 4 especially have a tendency to take long 2-pt jump shots. None of them have made more than 20 3s, but they can hit them if open.

Our offense is nothing flashy. It is a modified blocker / mover offense where guys are constantly moving, doing off ball screens, double screens, screening the screener - making the entire defense work the entire time and only taking good shots. Patience is drilled into every guy so we look to take only good shots, early or late in the shot clock and everyone has a willingness to give up a good look for a better one (though sometimes guys pass up good looks that they should take). This is where the efficiency comes in, we just don't take a ton of bad shots. We may not make everything, but when you take good shots, you make more of them.

We have really seen in wear on other teams as the game goes on, especially against teams without a ton of depth in the second half. Running guys thought multiple off ball screens on every possession all night tends to wear them down. Wait for one guy to get a step slow or be a bit lazy and we exploit that very well. In the ACC final against UNC, UNC played the best defensive game I have seen them play all year. They went 10 or 11 deep to make sure their guys could give full effort on D the entire night and, with their athletes and their commitment to give so much on D, they really slowed us down.
 

SolarGarlic

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Jan 18, 2016
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Our #3 offense against their defense is certainly the sexy matchup - but on the other side of the ball, having watched parts of several games in the last couple days, I'm surprised that they have the efficiency numbers they do on offense. On film it doesn't look that good.

They don't seem to run a lot of high (top of the key) ball screens, if at all. They run a lot of down-screens on the wings, with Brogdon and others popping up from the baseline. Then they will set ball screens on the wing (where we will 'ice' them to the sideline). Then they screen on the backside of the play a lot. It shouldn't be an offense that gets us into switches that cause problems too often.

They run a lot of clock, but the ball and the players are moving the whole time, so focus on defense is a big key.

We won't be able to turn them over very often, and they don't draw a ton of fouls. I don't see us doing anything special on defense, and we probably won't zone unless absolutely necessary.

Their offense almost always runs through Perrantes and Brogdon. Gill is really a garbage man - he'll make a post move now and then, but nothing to worry about. Then the athletic wings - Hall, Wilkins, Thompson, Shayok - have flashes but nothing consistent and nothing that seems 'planned'. These 4 especially have a tendency to take long 2-pt jump shots. None of them have made more than 20 3s, but they can hit them if open.

Perrantes is a smooth operator, but I'm confident Morris can disrupt his/their offense with ball pressure. Perrantes is more crafty than quick, and Morris is much more aggressive against those type of players as opposed to the quickness of Taylor or Mason.
 

Hizouse

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Mar 22, 2016
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I've really appreciated the two Film Room pieces on the site, and there are some good comments in this thread. I was also in Denver last week and was impressed by the number and knowledge of Cyclone fans. A few notes:

If Morris can disrupt Perrantes, Brogdon will bring the ball up the court. Perrantes is nominally the point guard, but I bet Brogdon brings it up just as often. This seems to have become more the case as the season has progressed and Perrantes' improved 3-point shooting has held up (led the ACC in 3-pt %, 48% in conference play). Perrantes, like almost all players, is much better at catch-and-shoot instead of the pull-up. I know Morris plays a lot; we will be happy to try to have him spend most of his day running through screens.

We set way more off-the-ball screens than ball screens. As LuckyWahoo notes, our blocker-mover offense is often designed to get Brogdon or Perrantes the ball coming off a screen. One of Brogdon's great strengths is reading the screens and knowing when to cut hard, shoot a J off the curl, or step back for a 3.

A big aspect of our game is the mental component. We run a slow pace; that's often frustrating for us Virginia fans as well. But as bawbie notes above, the guys are moving all the time. We are betting that we like playing defense more than you do. When you get the ball back after an extended period playing defense, the hope is that you will be so excited to be back on offense that you will rush and do something foolish. While time of possession doesn't matter much in basketball, I think it's a big part of Hoos' strategy, or at least a nice byproduct of it. LuckyWahoo notes that we wear you down; that's a result of having to play tough defense for a disproportionate amount of time.

The other mental part of our game is that when you are on offense, we want you to be thinking about doing things you don't normally do instead of reacting instinctively. Many of the strategies noted in this thread will work against the pack-line D; the key is whether you can execute it quickly. The gif of Brice Johnson hitting the cutter in the original article is a good example. That play is going to be open. But the window for that pass is pretty small, and if the big who catches the ball is thinking, "OK, where's the double coming from? Now where's my cutter or the doubling guy's man? Bounce or lob?", then it may be too late. Are the bigs used to making skip passes to the far corner through a double-team? When we played UNC the first time, Brice got frustrated and more or less checked out in the second half. He was much better the second time around in the championship game.

Of course, I would expect cool, veteran teams to be less affected by much of this, and Niang could have a great, great day. And we have struggled with teams that can put 4 3-pt shooters on the floor.

The other thing to watch for when you're on offense is how you handle the hard hedge on screen. I worry that Morris will split the hedge, as some quicker point guards have been able to do and get to the basket. When the screener rolls, that is another pass that will be open but the window can be so small, and we are betting that if the hedger can get the ball-handler bumped out farther than normal, he is not used to making that pass from that far back or at that angle. The second Louisville game is a good example of this, where they got several layups off the pick-and-roll, but most of the time it looked like they were trying to remember exactly what to do instead of just playing.

On offense, the two guys that could use a little more discussion are Mike Tobey and Marial Shayok. Tobey can be great when he's aggressive; the question for him is whether he can hang with your guys on defense. He is pretty skilled for a big man; we will run a play or two to get him isolated on the block and also don't mind him shooting from the free throw line. Shayok has had a nice few games lately; he is the best on the team after Brogdon at creating his own shot. He seems to have a few No-No-No-YES plays every game, along with a couple No-No-NO!!! plays as well. I think we need one of those 2 to have a big game. If the team, or those 2 guys especially, are shooting some long 2s early, as we are occasionally wont to do, it could be a long night.
 

VeloClone

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Jan 19, 2010
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Oh, I totally got what you were saying, but he's largely right. 3's against us are usually fool's gold. Teams that take a lot of 3's against us are usually settling. Now, can a team occasionally shoot the lights out? Yeah, it happens, but think of us sort of similar to Syracuse in that respect. Contested 3's are the shots we want you taking, so if you're taking them, you're probably playing into our hands.
I wasn't talking about contested 3's. I was talking about working for a shot end making an open three when you get it. The only way they should be taking a lot of threes is if they are getting a lot of open looks.

And several have talked about the different looks you throw at ball handlers in the lane - double or not and where it is coming from. Many posts are not good enough ball handlers or passers to improvise in the moment. They get doubled from the backside one time so they drive the next time thinking "I am going to pass to the opposite corner when that double comes." They are totally unprepared when the guard digs instead. What makes Georges so difficult to defend is his ability to coolly read the defense and counter each move by the defense in the moment. When he has beaten the double repeatedly and a coach foolishly abandons the double entirely against him he starts to totally mess with his one on one defender dictating the action. I'm pretty sure he could go an entire game and never repeat a combination of post moves. He is equally effective going left or going right with the left hand or the right. Against teams who have never defended him he is a nightmare.

That being said, that Virginia defense is a nightmare of its own. It should be a hell of a game.
 

LLCoolCY

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Apr 28, 2010
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This blurb sums it up pretty well I feel.
http://collegebasketball.nbcsports....eaking-down-whats-left-of-the-midwest-region/

"The Cyclones also matchup really well with Virginia’s defense; the things they do well are what you have to do to be able to beat the Pack-Line. They can hit threes over the top of it, they have a talented four-man that can create a mismatch and they play in transition, which would let them get down the floor before UVA can set their defense."

ISU has the correct roster construction to attack the Pack-Line. As with every Cyclone game, Niang is the key (especially pasing).
 

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