Eustachy taunted with "Alcoholic" Chants.

[GMackey32]

I can go out and become an alcoholic tomorrow. I can't up and get cancer. Maybe go buy a can of chew, throw one in and light a cig up. Continue that for 10-15 years. You should think a little more into it before posting things like this. Not even in the same ball park champ.

Actually you can. There are many studies out there showing that people that develop cancer are genetically predisposed to it and carry cancer cells that stay dormant for years. Then all of sudden, the cells become active and develop into cancer. You can also be genetically predisposed to alcoholism.

 

[Angie]

Yes, thank you. We're fortunate the DSM only had the MizzU pictures. His behavior towards some players, their parents, his boss and our President was totally unbecoming, but some people don't care about his behavior as long as the coach wins conference championships.

^^Exactly. Do I think Larry knew what he was doing on the court? Absolutely. Did he hurt a lot of people in the process? Yes.

 

[GMackey32]

No. You still have to involve an outside substance (insulin) to control diabetes, and be monitored by professionals. The ultimate action (or inaction) with alcoholism, no matter the resources you use to get there, is simply to not drink. There are many complex influences, but it boils down to just NOT doing something optional.

I respectfully disagree. My dad has diabetes and controlled it by changing his diet. He doesn't need insulin or even medication anymore. Avoiding sugars and carbs keeps his diabetes under control much like avoiding alcohol keeps alcoholism under control.

 

[Rabbuk]

It's a disease, but one that can ultimately be controlled by the person with it, unlike, say, cancer.

Do you say the same to people with clinical depression or manic depression. I don't see much difference.

 

[carvers4math]

However Larry acted with his team, guys were not fleeing the program at the same rate as "nice guy" Greg McDermott.

 

[cyfanatic]

Yes, thank you. We're fortunate the DSM only had the MizzU pictures. His behavior towards some players, their parents, his boss and our President was totally unbecoming, but some people don't care about his behavior as long as the coach wins conference championships.

And I know people who worked very closely with him at ISU that tell me he was the nicest and most caring person ever! So...

 

[Angie]

I respectfully disagree. My dad has diabetes and controlled it by changing his diet. He doesn't need insulin or even medication anymore. Avoiding sugars and carbs keeps his diabetes under control much like avoiding alcohol keeps alcoholism under control.

That's very mild diabetes, and I'd wager Type 2? I have a good friend, as a counterpoint, who has brittle Type 1 diabetes from the time they were a pre-teen. Despite an incredibly healthy void of carbs and sugar, and a strict exercise regimen, he can still go into diabetic shock easily if something gets even the slightest bit off. He needs an insulin pump to regulate his blood sugar constantly to keep it even. There isn't a type of alcoholism that can't be controlled by not drinking - you don't still get drunk without picking up a drink.

 

[The_Architect]

Wow...it is a disease! Would they taunt someone fighting cancer? Classless...obviously!

While I agree with the classlessness of the chant alcoholism isn't even remotely in the same ballpark as cancer.

 

[Madcyentist]

Roast me if you will, but if alcoholism isn't a disease then neither is depression. We get to choose how we approach life and some people are able to control their emotions/impulses better than others.

depression is more of a condition. like alcoholism you can be depressed one day then want to conquer the world the next. you can have 25 beers one night not drink the next. is that person an alcoholic? is the person really depressed? if you become dependent on alcohol to get you through a day/night then thats the condition you're in and you can choose to change it. Like depression. There is help like mentioned before in this thread. Neither are a disease. A disease is not a condition its a disease. You have it and that's that. Hopefully it can be cured but otherwise it's just something you have.

 

[Angie]

Do you say the same to people with clinical depression or manic depression. I don't see much difference.

You're getting into brain chemistry there. Most alcoholics also have depression (which is overwhelmingly caused by an imbalance of brain chemicals), and they self-medicate with alcohol. There are some exceptions, but that statistically is the majority.

Depression can be genetic, just like alcoholism (which again goes hand-in-hand - if your parents had depression and drank to control it, you inherit the depression and the coping mechanism). It hasn't been defined that "all alcoholics are missing X amount of seratonin/have X environmental factor/etc., it's seen as a combination of things. Depression is usually more easily defined - it's almost always (from what I've read) marked by a chemical imbalance, and how a patient deals with it can be affected by environment.

 

[Cychotiic]

It's a disease, but one that can ultimately be controlled by the person with it, unlike, say, cancer.

Actually they are kind of identical. genes can contribute to an increased risk as will as environment in both.

 

[Angie]

Actually they are kind of identical. genes can contribute to an increased risk as will as environment in both.

See my post right above yours.

 

[Tre4ISU]

People in 2013 still deny alcoholism is a disease.... who knew.

So being a smoker is a disease. Obesity is a disease. A gambling addiction is a disease. Porn addiction is a disease. Do you agree with all of that? It's fine if you do but we can't discuss alcoholism because we just simply don't agree on what a disease is.

 

[GMackey32]

That's very mild diabetes, and I'd wager Type 2? I have a good friend, as a counterpoint, who has brittle Type 1 diabetes from the time they were a pre-teen. Despite an incredibly healthy void of carbs and sugar, and a strict exercise regimen, he can still go into diabetic shock easily if something gets even the slightest bit off. He needs an insulin pump to regulate his blood sugar constantly to keep it even. There isn't a type of alcoholism that can't be controlled by not drinking - you don't still get drunk without picking up a drink.

Yes, Type 2. But you don't think there are some cases of alcoholism that requires medication to help curb cravings?

In extreme cases of diabetes, there's medication such as insulin or types of drugs you can take. In extreme cases of alcoholism, there's medication that can help you with the chemical imbalance that causes the cravings.

And much like my example of my dads diabetes, in mild cases, you can just avoid certain things to help it.

But just because "you can avoid" something that causes it doesn't mean it's not a disease.

 

[Tre4ISU]

Actually they are kind of identical. genes can contribute to an increased risk as will as environment in both.

You still have to make the decision to drink. Why do people just get a pass on that?

 

[Rabbuk]

So being a smoker is a disease. Obesity is a disease. A gambling addiction is a disease. Porn addiction is a disease. Do you agree with all of that? It's fine if you do but we can't discuss alcoholism because we just simply don't agree on what a disease is.

Your logic is terrible.

 

[dunar]

I didn't know we had so many doctors (of the MD or DO variety) on CF!

I guess I trust them to establish the definition of a disease...

 

[Tre4ISU]

Your logic is terrible.

How so? A person could be genetically vulnerable to all of those things yet all of them require the choice to do something that is the actual root of the problem.

 

[carvers4math]

In addition to the AMA considering alcoholism a disease, the ADA considers it a disability.

 

[Angie]

Yes, Type 2. But you don't think there are some cases of alcoholism that requires medication to help curb cravings?

In extreme cases of diabetes, there's medication such as insulin or types of drugs you can take. In extreme cases of alcoholism, there's medication that can help you with the chemical imbalance that causes the cravings.

And much like my example of my dads diabetes, in mild cases, you can just avoid certain things to help it.

But just because "you can avoid" something that causes it doesn't mean it's not a disease.

I think you're missing my point. And it's not just extreme cases of diabetes that require insulin or Metformin or other drugs, but that's semantics and not the point. And, to be fair, Type 2 is usually a result of lifestyle choices, as well, but that's also beside the point.

Let's break it down to a simple chart on how mild and severe cases are dealt with in each of our two examples (if such a thing exists), assuming our mild diabetic does not require drugs:

"Mild" diabetes: Ultimately can be controlled with just diet adherence and by avoiding certain things.
"Mild" alcoholism: Ultimately is ALWAYS controlled by just not drinking.

"Severe" diabetes: Ultimately can only be controlled by a combination of the use of insulin/other drugs, diet adherence, and lifestyle changes. Additional medications may aid in the control, but drugs of some nature are 100% required, or the outcome is death.
"Severe" alcoholism: Ultimately can only be controlled by not drinking. Medications, counseling, and so on may aid in the control, but the ultimate answer is not drinking.