Dune Universe Thread

Cloned4Life

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We sat in M when we went and it was great. Make sure to get into the stadium seating.
We didn’t have great seats last night but in that theater, it was still phenomenal. The sound, the experience, all of it.

We saw Avatar 3D there also - normally would never do 3D but THAT movie in 3D was an experience like I’ve never had before in a theater.
 

BryceC

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I always compare Paul to Michael Corleone. He was destined for better things, but he got drug in to a violent world and ultimately gave in to baser instincts in order to preserve both his life and his power.
 
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Sigmapolis

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Appreciate the quick response!

Great call-out on the news about his grandfather. As a non-book-reader, I wasn't quite sure how to react to that piece, as it definitely took me off guard. What way you have laid it out makes a lot of sense - that news definitely almost immediately changes Paul and his mindset (although it is not clear how much this "news" changes Jessica), and he even makes a statement about how he needs to start acting like a Harkonnen. Creepy!

The acting all-around in this film is pretty incredible. Timmy was great!

Another factor that came to mind thinking about this last night...

Paul's transformation and "embrace of his terrible fate" also coincides with his reunion with Gurney. The two are rarely far apart after that. While Paul loves Gurney, his father's best friend and something of an unofficial uncle, he's a constant reminder of the men his father loved and who served him with honor until they were killed by the Harkonnen and betrayed by the Emperor. Gurney doesn't call him Usul or Muad'Dib or even Paul but "Duke Atreides," a reminder of his birthright that draws him back into that world. Gurney also shows him where Leto and him stashed the family atomics, which opens up new military possibilities for Muad'Dib and the Fremen to assault the Harkonnen stronghold directly instead of fighting a guerilla war.

While Gurney is a good man and Paul and him love each other, he's also something of a devil on his shoulder reminding him of the terrible things that were done to him and his family. Gurney directly tells him he should use his growing legend throughout the Fremen to seek revenge for the death of his father, reclaim the honor of House Atreides, and achieve the dream that Leto had for Paul to be an Emperor.

He keeps hiding and running from all that... until he can no longer.
 

Cloned4Life

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Another factor that came to mind thinking about this last night...

Paul's transformation and "embrace of his terrible fate" also coincides with his reunion with Gurney. The two are rarely far apart after that. While Paul loves Gurney, his father's best friend and something of an unofficial uncle, he's a constant reminder of the men his father loved and who served him with honor until they were killed by the Harkonnen and betrayed by the Emperor. Gurney doesn't call him Usul or Muad'Dib or even Paul but "Duke Atreides," a reminder of his birthright that draws him back into that world. Gurney also shows him where Leto and him stashed the family atomics, which opens up new military possibilities for Muad'Dib and the Fremen to assault the Harkonnen stronghold directly instead of fighting a guerilla war.

While Gurney is a good man and Paul and him love each other, he's also something of a devil on his shoulder reminding him of the terrible things that were done to him and his family. Gurney directly tells him he should use his growing legend throughout the Fremen to seek revenge for the death of his father, reclaim the honor of House Atreides, and achieve the dream that Leto had for Paul to be an Emperor.

He keeps hiding and running from all that... until he can no longer.
Well stated, I really like the "devil on his shoulder" analogy. As an audience member, I agree that my "uneasiness" around rooting for Paul certainly started to ramp up when Gurney showed up, as he was almost immediately dismissive and disrespectful to the Fremen. For some reason, I was surprised by that aggressive, somewhat arrogant behavior from Gurney, whereas Paul (and even Duncan in the 1st film) seemed much more humble and respectful in their initial interactions with the Fremen. Almost like Gurney didn't care to (or feel he had to) try to earn the respect of the Fremen. To be fair, we had not seen Gurney since the 1st film, we don't really know what earlier interactions he may have had with other Fremen when he was on the run. From his point of view - he too had to witness the death and destruction of the family, friends, house, life he loved and seeing that Paul was still alive obviously invigorated his lust for revenge.
 
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Sigmapolis

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Well stated, I really like the "devil on his shoulder" analogy. As an audience member, I agree that my "uneasiness" around rooting for Paul certainly started to ramp up when Gurney showed up, as he was almost immediately dismissive and disrespectful to the Fremen. For some reason, I was surprised by that aggressive, somewhat arrogant behavior from Gurney, whereas Paul (and even Duncan in the 1st film) seemed much more humble and respectful in their initial interactions with the Fremen. Almost like Gurney didn't care to (or feel he had to) try to earn the respect of the Fremen. To be fair, we had not seen Gurney since the 1st film, we don't really know what earlier interactions he may have had with other Fremen when he was on the run. From his point of view - he too had to witness the death and destruction of the family, friends, house, life he loved and seeing that Paul was still alive obviously invigorated his lust for revenge.

There was a continuum of how the Atreides viewed the Fremen.

Paul was genuinely fascinated by them and genuinely wanted to learn their ways. Indeed, he becomes one in time, falls in love with a Fremen woman, and eventually becomes their leader.

Duncan is the next most interested: he's chosen to be Duke Atreides' liaison to Stilgar and genuinely respects them as warriors, though ultimately his interest is in forging an alliance with them.

Leto is next: wants to be respectful of them and their plight, wants to play the "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" card with them regarding the Harkonnen to form an alliance, though he's not much interested in their culture or getting to know them and their ways on a personal level like Paul and Duncan.

Jessica is next. The Fremen are purely instrumental to her. Play up the prophecy that Paul is the lisan al gaib sent to deliver the Fremen to freedom. She becomes their Reverend Mother because she had no choice and she sees what such a position can do towards her political ambitions for Paul.

Gurney doesn't seem to like 'em. There's a cut scene from Part One that goes like this. Everybody is having a little drinking party before Duncan goes to Arrakis to seek out the Fremen and well...

1709849105573.png

Gurney is the one who draws his blade to kill Stilgar when he "insults" the Duke by spitting on the table only to have Duncan stop him and disarm the whole situation by spitting back on it. I'm sure Gurney didn't come to like the Fremen more when he fell in with the smugglers, too, knowing that a Fremen guerilla band could attack the harvester at any time (and, indeed, that's exactly what happened to him).

He is also the most paranoid and has the deepest level of hatred for the Harkonnen...

1709849224228.png

...and thus is pushing Paul at all times to take revenge on the Harkonnen and the Emperor. He hunts Rabban down during the Battle of Arrakeen and begs Paul for the chance to kill the Na-Baron.

So, yeah, having Gurney back wasn't good for Paul's attempt to avoid his dark turn.
 

BWRhasnoAC

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Is Leto (Paul's father) Harkonnen? When the Duke is sitting with Leto after he is poisoned he tells him 'You have a wonderful kitchen cousin.' is he aware that Jessica is his daughter or is Leto family making Paul inbred?
 

Entropy

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Is Leto (Paul's father) Harkonnen? When the Duke is sitting with Leto after he is poisoned he tells him 'You have a wonderful kitchen cousin.' is he aware that Jessica is his daughter or is Leto family making Paul inbred?
He doesn't know that Jessica is his daughter, nor that Paul is his grandson.

I'm trying to remember from the book, but from what I can recall Jessica should have had a daughter, rather than a son, which was to be crossbred with a Harkonnen (Feyd - Rautha) and the outcome was likely to be the Kwisatz Haderach.
 

BWRhasnoAC

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He doesn't know that Jessica is his daughter, nor that Paul is his grandson.

I'm trying to remember from the book, but from what I can recall Jessica should have had a daughter, rather than a son, which was to be crossbred with a Harkonnen (Feyd - Rautha) and the outcome was likely to be the Kwisatz Haderach.
I just don't understand that line. Even if he did know that Jessica was his daughter, that would have made Leto his son in law. It has bothered me since the first one.
 

NorthCyd

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I just don't understand that line. Even if he did know that Jessica was his daughter, that would have made Leto his son in law. It has bothered me since the first one.
According to the internet they are not related and best guess is the word cousin was used as a term of endearment amongst royalty (apparently since most of them were related distantly in some way) and it is being used in a similar way in Dune.
 
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BWRhasnoAC

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According to the internet they are not related and best guess is the word cousin was used as a term of endearment amongst royalty (apparently since most of them were related distantly in some way) and it is being used in a similar way in Dune.
That was my assumption as well but nothing is done without intention in these movies or the books from what I have gathered.

A quick search says that they are distant cousins.
 

Cfinnerty16

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I just saw Dune 2. Keep in mind, I read the first book, Dune Messiah, & Children of Dune.
That being said, I really didn’t like this one. They bounced around so much that there couldn’t be any meaningful dialogue.
Consequently, the dialogue became boring & a drain to sit through due to all the skipping around.

This 2nd movie should have been broken half or something different, idk.
And then the Chani thing at the end, wtf was that turning it into some young adult drama.
Also they made Stilgar a bumbling idiot.

I sort of wish I didn’t read the books because maybe I’d enjoy this more.
2.5/5 stars for me.
First one was 4.5/5 stars
 

BWRhasnoAC

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I just saw Dune 2. Keep in mind, I read the first book, Dune Messiah, & Children of Dune.
That being said, I really didn’t like this one. They bounced around so much that there couldn’t be any meaningful dialogue.
Consequently, the dialogue became boring & a drain to sit through due to all the skipping around.

This 2nd movie should have been broken half or something different, idk.
And then the Chani thing at the end, wtf was that turning it into some young adult drama.
Also they made Stilgar a bumbling idiot.

I sort of wish I didn’t read the books because maybe I’d enjoy this more.
2.5/5 stars for me.
First one was 4.5/5 stars
Woof. This movie was amazing.
 

Cfinnerty16

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Woof. This movie was amazing.
That’s ok to have disagreements on it too! It was amazing to you, it was not amazing to me. I thought the CGI was the best I’ve seen in a movie 100%.
The tribal woman background music that played whenever Paul did something also became funny to me, it was overdone.
& now the memes on the internet make sense.
 

TomTreebow

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I just saw Dune 2. Keep in mind, I read the first book, Dune Messiah, & Children of Dune.
That being said, I really didn’t like this one. They bounced around so much that there couldn’t be any meaningful dialogue.
Consequently, the dialogue became boring & a drain to sit through due to all the skipping around.

This 2nd movie should have been broken half or something different, idk.
And then the Chani thing at the end, wtf was that turning it into some young adult drama.
Also they made Stilgar a bumbling idiot.

I sort of wish I didn’t read the books because maybe I’d enjoy this more.
2.5/5 stars for me.
First one was 4.5/5 stars
I was a little bit this way as well. I loved the first, and liked the second a lot. But without reading the book I would have been lost. I'm honestly not sure how it got the reviews it did, I agree that it bounced around too much for any reasonable watcher who hadn't read the book. I'd say it was a 3.5 or 4 out of 5 for me. Visuals and sound were absolutely top tier, though, no argument there from me.

Having read the second book, 3 movies seem right. But I feel like the second book could have just been the last 15 minutes of the third movie. There's so much more depth to the first book (in my opinion) that they could have spent time on to help a bit.
 
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Cfinnerty16

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I was a little bit this way as well. I loved the first, and liked the second a lot. But without reading the book I would have been lost. I'm honestly not sure how it got the reviews it did, I agree that it bounced around too much for any reasonable watcher who hadn't read the book. I'd say it was a 3.5 or 4 out of 5 for me. Visuals and sound were absolutely top tier, though, no argument there from me.

Having read the second book, 3 movies seem right. But I feel like the second book could have just been the last 15 minutes of the third movie. There's so much more depth to the first book (in my opinion) that they could have spent time on to help a bit.
I agree 100% especially with the bolded.
My fiance didn’t even know how Paul & Chani got so romantically involved. “They didn’t even spend that much time together!”
There was no real hint to the viewer that years have gone by in the desert
If you didn’t read the book, theres no way to tell everything that was going on, very confusing to the average viewer.
Also, Alia just being a talking fetus the whole time was certainly a choice lol.
Stilgar had so much depth to him & they made him just a religious simpleton with a catch phrase.
In terms of a viewing spectacle it was absolutely amazing.
The dialogue, pacing, & plot is where it lost its points for me in my review of it.
 

BWRhasnoAC

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That's kind of the problem with trying to do long books in movie form. I would love to see The Storm light series by Brandon Sanderson on film but the books are 1000 pages long. Can never possibly fit it all on there.
 
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