Does attending a more selective college equal a bigger paycheck?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Sigmapolis, Jun 3, 2020.

  1. mcblogerson

    mcblogerson Well-Known Member

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    Ivy league, Stanford, MIT, level degrees open doors that arent easily opened by other colleges.

    Past that most colleges are about the same, whether its a P5 school or a small liberal arts one. Regionally it may give you a little prestige. I would guess most people outside of the midwest dont know what state Northwestern is in, let alone if its better than NW Missouri St.
     
  2. Sigmapolis

    Sigmapolis Minister of Economy
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    Yeah, if they ever pay off. Most of those things fail anyways. But having somebody to subsidize your loses (while you draw a salary off it) is a perk, as well.

    A fun political cartoon that summarizes some of my thoughts on the matter --

    [​IMG]

    We think the hedge funds and tech bros are the ones making money on this. Nah, not really. Whoever owns land in NYC and SF is making a killing.
     
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  3. throwittoblythe

    throwittoblythe Well-Known Member

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    A big thing that's missing is how people define "success" for themselves and their kids. I'm sure many of the "elites" that folks are talking about here think that "success" means you have to make 7 figures, dine at the finest restaurants, rub elbows with the super-rich, live on the upper east side, and have 10 houses around the world.

    The same goes for people that think their kids HAVE to go to college to achieve "success." To them, it means a a four year degree, un upper-middle class job at a good company, a house in the 'burbs, 2 kids, a dog, an SUV, etc. The thought of their kids going into the trades is some sort of a consolation prize.

    Success is defined differently for everyone. Where people go off the rails is when they define it in ways that go all-or-nothing on a specific outcome and on things they can't control. Both the parents and the kids are so stressed out at all phases of life because they worry their lives will be ruined because they didn't [INSERT: get into the right daycare, get into the right private HS, get into the right college, get the right job, marry into the right family].

    Stop defining success by external factors. I might not make as much money as I possibly can. I only have one house and I can't afford to take my family on vacation every single year. But my marriage is healthy, my kids are healthy, and they're getting what is a decent upbringing that (I hope) emphasizes hard work, empathy, and decency. Beyond that, it's kind of a roll of the dice.
     
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  4. Sigmapolis

    Sigmapolis Minister of Economy
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    All correct, but all peeing into a hurricane into many social circles (and especially on the East Coast and in major West Coast cities).

    You just get pee on yourself and the hurricane keeps blowing.

    Success here is... your kids are successful white collar professionals in a handful of prestige industries, like finance, consulting, medicine, journalism, philanthropy, academia, or politics and/or law/government... or they are not successes whatsoever.

    They treat anything less like the kid is going to become a hick huffing spray paint in rural West Virginia. Their fears are not unfounded... there is not as much of a middle to the labor market as there was in 1950... but it is ridiculous. It is like the overbearing Little League parent only blown up a million times to every aspect of their life.

    Ideally every kid needs to be a justice on the Supreme Court, but there are only nine of those, so the competition for them from Day 1 is hellacious. Only 10% of people can be in the top 10% of their graduating class by definition, so get to it.

    I like that paper because it gives some indication this whole rat race might be over nothing anyways. They key is graduating, not which school you got into.
     
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  5. kchacker

    kchacker Well-Known Member

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    I agree. When I was looking at schools, my uncle said "if you're ever going to move out of state, and you probably will, do you want Iowa State or (insert other small Iowa school) on your resume?" The small school had an excellent program, but he was probably right.

    Yale, Harvard, the big boys? Sure, I won't argue with those. That list gets pretty short pretty quick. After that, I want something people have at least heard of.
     
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  6. VeloClone

    VeloClone Well-Known Member

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    This is true and generally applies to your first one or two jobs. But after you are in the work force for a while your job experience and accomplishments matter much more than the name across the top of your diploma in a great number of fields.
     
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  7. CTTB78

    CTTB78 Well-Known Member

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    Leaving Berkeley off the list (but including Stanford) is fighting words for a lot of Californians.
     
  8. ArgentCy

    ArgentCy Well-Known Member

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    Where the heck is Carmel? It doesn't surprise me at all that the Europeans were more uppity than the Ivy schools. This all stems from old school politics and Europe has that in Spades.

    I'm sure who ever think Carmel is a good school would see me as Homer when I tell them well at least the picked the best candy.
     
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  9. ArgentCy

    ArgentCy Well-Known Member

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    I actually went to tour Washington University in St Louis. Lol, spent about 5 mins there looking around and at the area and said no f'ing way. Didn't talk to anyone there and said ISU it is.
     
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  10. CTTB78

    CTTB78 Well-Known Member

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    Not sure if it was a serious question-- but it's Carmel, California. No colleges there that I'm aware of.
     
  11. SpokaneCY

    SpokaneCY Well-Known Member
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    I think it's because of all the poop.
     
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  12. SpokaneCY

    SpokaneCY Well-Known Member
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    DLIFLC. Defense Language Institute - Foreign Language Center. But ya kinda have to enlist to go there...
     
  13. brianhos

    brianhos Moderator
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    Maybe in the business world it does, but not in technology. No one cares what your degree is after that first job.
     
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  14. Sigmapolis

    Sigmapolis Minister of Economy
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    You say this, and it is indeed the conventional wisdom, but again, if those "doors" are so important, it is not showing up in the early career salary data.

    Average salaries of *graduates* between directional state schools, "modesty" selective state schools (e.g., Iowa State), "more" selective state schools (e.g., Michigan or Virginia), and your upper-echelon stuff is... surprisingly close, all things considered.

    That is, Harvard grads are not lapping Northern Iowa grads.
     
  15. Cyched

    Cyched Minister of Culture
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    Good news for Rhoho. He can keep the William Hill gravy train rolling.
     
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  16. Cyched

    Cyched Minister of Culture
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    It was nice having our high school partnering with DMACC, where AP classes got you college credit, so if you took an AP class you didn't have to worry too much.

    Got Calc I knocked out via our AP Calc high school class. AP Chem ended up knocking out two chemistry classes at ISU that I needed to take (177 & 178), which was a pleasant surprise.
     
  17. cyIclSoneU

    cyIclSoneU Well-Known Member

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    Glad you mentioned this - the culture surrounding education (particularly, but not exclusively, higher education) is so much different in the northeast than the Midwest. Going to a public university on the east coast is looked down upon. It's so much better that Midwest states have strong public universities that are respected and attainable for their high school grads. But move to Boston with an ISU (or Iowa, or Minnesota, etc.) degree and it will be tougher for you.
     
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  18. cyIclSoneU

    cyIclSoneU Well-Known Member

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    With all of that said, there are fields where school matters immensely. One of the most school prestige-sensitive fields is the legal industry, where there is a cabal of 14 universities (literally known as the "Top 14") from which most major law firms primarily draw (as well as other highly-sought jobs, like clerking for judges). So if you don't get your law degree from Yale, Harvard, Stanford, Columbia, Chicago, NYU, Penn, Virginia, Duke, Cal, Michigan, Northwestern, Cornell, or Georgetown, you are already starting out with one hand tied behind your back in the job search.
     
  19. Sigmapolis

    Sigmapolis Minister of Economy
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    I moved from Iowa to Boston and then to Washington, DC.

    It was the worst in Massachusetts -- UMass is essentially the worst school in the state, and everybody presumes anybody who went there is either a big fat idiot party animal or a complete ****-up who you do not want to trust with anything.

    It is the cardinal opposite of Iowa, where the best schools in the state are the public schools. In the Commonwealth, if you want to be considered anybody, you had to have gone to a certain set of elite private schools in Boston and Cambridge.

    MIT is the one big exception.
     
  20. cyIclSoneU

    cyIclSoneU Well-Known Member

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    Right, the only school in Iowa that I would think “This guy is probably smart” without knowing anything else about him is Grinnell. If you go to Simpson or Upper Iowa or Mount Mercy or Northwestern College or whatever else, I won’t think any more or less vs somebody who went to one of the state schools. Definitely not the case in the northeast.
     

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