Cryptocurrency

[besserheimerphat]

Exactly. Most consumers are using credit cards or PayPal or some third party to provide protection. And crypto works with those also.

Sure, but then you are still subject to the fees, restrictions and limitations of those third parties. And from what I've been told, the whole point of crypto is to get away from those third parties in the first place. That's my point.

Consumer safeguards have a cost. If you don't value those safeguards, then crypto is a great option for you. Same as cash. Zero friction, zero protection (though you can track crypto). But many people do value those safeguards, and view them as a benefit rather than a hindrance for any kind of legal transaction. I value being able to dispute a charge on my card and the bank being able to restore my funds.

Whether or not any transaction should be illegal (e.g. drugs, smuggling, etc.) is a separate discussion.

 

[Ames]

Sure, but then you are still subject to the fees, restrictions and limitations of those third parties. And from what I've been told, the whole point of crypto is to get away from those third parties in the first place. That's my point.

Consumer safeguards have a cost. If you don't value those safeguards, then crypto is a great option for you. Same as cash. Zero friction, zero protection (though you can track crypto). But many people do value those safeguards, and view them as a benefit rather than a hindrance for any kind of legal transaction. I value being able to dispute a charge on my card and the bank being able to restore my funds.

Whether or not any transaction should be illegal (e.g. drugs, smuggling, etc.) is a separate discussion.

I use credit cards a lot also. And I use them with crypto. That really has nothing to do with fiat or crypto. Credit cards are their own system. The world isn't going to go all credit card or all crypto. It's always going to be a mix of platforms.

Everyone has their own reasons for crypto. Yeah some people want off the standard banking systems. They also aren't the people complaining about not having fraud protections.

I specifically want the tracking. My taxes are difficult enough as is I want transparency and it to be easier to sort out. I want to use the best platform for every use case. Some are traditional banking and some are crypto.

I think crypto is the future for a lot of other reasons. Even if it ends up being more about smart contracts and blockchain and store of value and less about it being a currency. It's just a matter of how it's used and on what platforms. It will get buried under some friendly UI and you won't know or care it's being used. Those that actually understand what's going on have a leg up. But that's true not just in crypto, but in traditional banking, and technology in general.

 

[JustAnotherTimeline]

I know you think your cheeky "blockchain durhur" response was what we were looking for, but tracking is irrelevant if there is no way to get the money back. That's why I brought up sunken treasure. You might know exactly where it is, but without the means to retrieve it who cares? It doesn't do you any good just to know where it is.

I'm guessing next you're going to talk about escrow and smart contracts, but based on our existing legal system contracts are debated and contested all the time. So best case you're in court again just like you would be today, except even if the court finds in your favor there is no mechanism for your coins to be reclaimed from someone else's wallet.

If any one of the firms that applied for a spot BTC ETF is approved it would solve your custody and trust hang-ups. Are you BTC buyer if/when that happens?

 

[besserheimerphat]

I'm confident crypto has a usecase for some people. I don't see one for myself yet, so I don't anticipate getting into it but that could change.

When people say "crypto is the future" it makes me think of people who claimed "solar is the future." Neither crypto nor solar will take over the world. But both offer advantages in certain cases that will make them part of their respective ecosystems. We'll always have fiat and central banking. We'll always have wind, nuclear and fossil fuels. There is no singular future. But people can pick and choose as they need.

 

[Jer]

I'm confident crypto has a usecase for some people. I don't see one for myself yet, so I don't anticipate getting into it but that could change.

When people say "crypto is the future" it makes me think of people who claimed "solar is the future." Neither crypto nor solar will take over the world. But both offer advantages in certain cases that will make them part of their respective ecosystems. We'll always have fiat and central banking. We'll always have wind, nuclear and fossil fuels. There is no singular future. But people can pick and choose as they need.

I agree, but I think solar panels have a better chance than crypto. The problem with solar panels could theoretically be solved (size/space requirements are still pretty large, they are fairly inefficient as well - really a cause/effect there). If they could find ways to stack transparent panels in layers (kinda like triple pane glass but say 10-15 panes instead), that would solve a ton of problems. Not sure if technically doable.

Crypto has use cases, very real ones, but like NFTs, the use cases are more niche than mainstream for the long foreseeable future (maybe 15+ years).

 

[JustAnotherTimeline]

I agree, but I think solar panels have a better chance than crypto. The problem with solar panels could theoretically be solved (size/space requirements are still pretty large, they are fairly inefficient as well - really a cause/effect there). If they could find ways to stack transparent panels in layers (kinda like triple pane glass but say 10-15 panes instead), that would solve a ton of problems. Not sure if technically doable.

Crypto has use cases, very real ones, but like NFTs, the use cases are more niche than mainstream for the long foreseeable future (maybe 15+ years).

Tokenization of securities and other assets will be rolled out MUCH fast than that. Here is a good article that illustrates progress that is being made in the space. Instantaneous settlement and massive fee reduction will drive adoption. This is a win for the public and financial inclusion worldwide.

Technical Difficulties :: Kitco.com

 

[Jer]

Tokenization of securities and other assets will be rolled out MUCH fast than that. Here is a good article that illustrates progress that is being made in the space. Instantaneous settlement and massive fee reduction will drive adoption. This is a win for the public and financial inclusion worldwide.

Technical Difficulties :: Kitco.com

I consider that niche as it's still largely in the POC stages in many areas and really serving as a backbone and not a consumer or business oriented solution

 

[JustAnotherTimeline]

Anyone else following these developments over the last few months? Seems very likely BTC Spot ETF will be approved. If money flow mirrors Canada (who already has these products) or similarly to gold when the ETF was approved, it could be extremely bullish for price.

Cryptoverse: As good as gold? Spot bitcoin ETFs aim to whip up US demand

Bitcoin, the original crypto rebel, is racing into the heart of the financial establishment with an exchange-traded fund that tracks its price. But will it strike gold?

www.reuters.com

 

[Cyclonepride]

Anyone else following these developments over the last few months? Seems very likely BTC Spot ETF will be approved. If money flow mirrors Canada (who already has these products) or similarly to gold when the ETF was approved, it could be extremely bullish for price.

Cryptoverse: As good as gold? Spot bitcoin ETFs aim to whip up US demand

Bitcoin, the original crypto rebel, is racing into the heart of the financial establishment with an exchange-traded fund that tracks its price. But will it strike gold?

www.reuters.com

Seems like a way to control the market via paper like has been done with gold.

 

[JustAnotherTimeline]

Seems like a way to control the market via paper like has been done with gold.

I have always felt like the Futures ETFs have been used to manipulate. But how would spot ETFs be used like that? Entities would have to purchase and custody 1 for 1 client BTC.

 

[BryceC]

Anyone else following these developments over the last few months? Seems very likely BTC Spot ETF will be approved. If money flow mirrors Canada (who already has these products) or similarly to gold when the ETF was approved, it could be extremely bullish for price.

Cryptoverse: As good as gold? Spot bitcoin ETFs aim to whip up US demand

Bitcoin, the original crypto rebel, is racing into the heart of the financial establishment with an exchange-traded fund that tracks its price. But will it strike gold?

www.reuters.com

Certainly possible. I still am curious about regulation. If it gets enough people in it they'll need to regulate it somehow, and however they choose to do that will either be slightly damaging to the value or extremely damaging to the value. Tough to say though.

 

[Cyclonepride]

I have always felt like the Futures ETFs have been used to manipulate. But how would spot ETFs be used like that? Entities would have to purchase and custody 1 for 1 client BTC.

As long as it is 1 to 1, then you couldn't.

 

[cyclone1209]

I have always felt like the Futures ETFs have been used to manipulate. But how would spot ETFs be used like that? Entities would have to purchase and custody 1 for 1 client BTC.

I think the biggest risk to the asset class is if there are more situations like Binance, like FTX and SBF, and the regulators finally step in and say, "enough".

I have swing traded GBTC before but am not a long crypto guy. I think the system that is with the big banks, Federal Reserve, and the dollar system just never allow for crypto to be the defacto currency of choice. Just my opinion.

 

[JustAnotherTimeline]

I think the biggest risk to the asset class is if there are more situations like Binance, like FTX and SBF, and the regulators finally step in and say, "enough".

I have swing traded GBTC before but am not a long crypto guy. I think the system that is with the big banks, Federal Reserve, and the dollar system just never allow for crypto to be the defacto currency of choice. Just my opinion.

FTX was the worlds second largest exchange. US Regulators have done squat in response. I wonder what in the world it would take for them to do "something".

 

[clonehome]

I read that Mark Cuban got scammed for a million bucks, or something like that, worth of crypto a few weeks ago. It seems like some amount of fraud here and there doesn’t slow it at all. And a major blow up every couple years is just growing pains. I think it’s a juiced financial market with very little regulation and that’s the appeal. Mostly throw away money for a sizable number of investors so if you got in early or buy in at the right time you might earn a big return. But if you lose it was fun and worth a shot.

 

[BryceC]

FTX was the worlds second largest exchange. US Regulators have done squat in response. I wonder what in the world it would take for them to do "something".

Just my opinion but the banks haven't leaned on the legislature hard yet.

If they see their market share decreasing enough, they'll start demanding that crypto funds adhere to the same regulations they do. Then things get really interesting. For the record I think they should be held to that standard as well.

 

[Spam]

Anyone else following these developments over the last few months? Seems very likely BTC Spot ETF will be approved. If money flow mirrors Canada (who already has these products) or similarly to gold when the ETF was approved, it could be extremely bullish for price.

Cryptoverse: As good as gold? Spot bitcoin ETFs aim to whip up US demand

Bitcoin, the original crypto rebel, is racing into the heart of the financial establishment with an exchange-traded fund that tracks its price. But will it strike gold?

www.reuters.com

Things are certainly getting interesting

 

[MrTippet]

Miller and Williams released an Iowa Everywhere on Bitcoin

 

[BryceC]

I do think it's interesting that the blockchain was the new technology that everybody was aflutter about for a few years, and now it seems to have switched to AI, and quite frankly I just don't hear anything about the blockchain anymore. I wonder how much space there is for blockchain technologies now that a lot of capital and everything is flowing more toward AI.

 

[cycloneworld]

It won't be long and ya'll will own a little worthless bitcoin in your Target funds.

Bitcoin Bonanza on Tap if BlackRock ETF Is Approved

Grayscale owners could see a double benefit, and Coinbase would get a shot in the arm.

www.wsj.com

Whoops. Bitcoin is at $51,000+.