Connor Frankamp transferring

[Rhoadhoused]

In just saying Bill Self is a great coach but if you're going to argue him over Hoiberg you have to account for the difference I'm jobs.

Anyway this all started with Taco trying to act like Self was infallible because he took Tulsa to the Sweet 16 and it was royal bulls hit because Tubby Smith had already built that program up into a perennial tourney qualifier with many wins in the tourney as well before Self got there

 

[CoKane]

In just saying Bill Self is a great coach but if you're going to argue him over Hoiberg you have to account for the difference I'm jobs.

Anyway this all started with Taco trying to act like Self was infallible because he took Tulsa to the Sweet 16 and it was royal bulls hit because Tubby Smith had already built that program up into a perennial tourney qualifier with many wins in the tourney as well before Self got there

Please tell me you posted this on mobile.

 

[Rhoadhoused]

Please tell me you posted this on mobile.

On my tiny little work iPhone.... I like my S5 better. I noticed the BS typo I just let is go. The rest were....nothing intentional

 

[Clone1138]

Rhoadhoused, you and I are pretty much in agreement. I just don't think you can KU has **** the bed during the tournament under Self. Sure, some of the years may have not been up to KU fans standards, but any other rational person would look at the body of work and think it was pretty solid.

My problem more lies in statements like this one:

KU fans are arrogant jerks, and horrible at understanding the game of basketball. Gonna be great when they lose 3 times to us this year.

If KU fans are arrogant jerks, it's because they can afford to be. They have a history to back up the talk. They are horrible at understanding basketball? Really? Kansas/Naismith basically invented the damn game. He accuses KU fans of being arrogant in one sentence and then in the next sentence says how great it will be when they lose to ISU 3 times this year. Now who's arrogant?

 

[CoKane]

Rhoadhoused, you and I are pretty much in agreement. I just don't think you can KU has **** the bed during the tournament under Self. Sure, some of the years may have not been up to KU fans standards, but any other rational person would look at the body of work and think it was pretty solid.

My problem more lies in statements like this one:



If KU fans are arrogant jerks, it's because they can afford to be. They have a history to back up the talk. They are horrible at understanding basketball? Really? Kansas/Naismith basically invented the damn game. He accuses KU fans of being arrogant in one sentence and then in the next sentence says how great it will be when they lose to ISU 3 times this year. Now who's arrogant?

Yeah. Cyber doesn't always make that much sense.

 

[Rhoadhoused]

Here's my point on Bill Self:

Losses vs 9 seed or worse at Kansas in 11 years: 5 (#9 UNI, #10 Stanford, #14 Bucknell, #13 Bradley, #11 VCU

Wins vs top 7 seed or better at Kansas in 11 years: 8

He has gone out fairly frequently vs lower seeds for a team like Kansas. Obviously Kansas is very good at basketball and Bill Self is a great coach, but in the context of what Kansas basketball is I think it's fair to say he has had some boom years and a lot of big bust years.

 

[CYphyllis]

Rhoadhoused, you and I are pretty much in agreement. I just don't think you can KU has **** the bed during the tournament under Self. Sure, some of the years may have not been up to KU fans standards, but any other rational person would look at the body of work and think it was pretty solid.

My problem more lies in statements like this one:



If KU fans are arrogant jerks, it's because they can afford to be. They have a history to back up the talk. They are horrible at understanding basketball? Really? Kansas/Naismith basically invented the damn game. He accuses KU fans of being arrogant in one sentence and then in the next sentence says how great it will be when they lose to ISU 3 times this year. Now who's arrogant?

The only time you can afford to be arrogant in sports is if you are in fact an actual competitor. Being some ******* in the stands doesn't afford you a damn thing.

 

[twocoach]

Here's my point on Bill Self:

Losses vs 9 seed or worse at Kansas in 11 years: 5 (#9 UNI, #10 Stanford, #14 Bucknell, #13 Bradley, #11 VCU

Wins vs top 7 seed or better at Kansas in 11 years: 8

He has gone out fairly frequently vs lower seeds for a team like Kansas. Obviously Kansas is very good at basketball and Bill Self is a great coach, but in the context of what Kansas basketball is I think it's fair to say he has had some boom years and a lot of big bust years.

The "problem" is that every single coach and program has down years and up years. Most coaches down years are truly down years where they miss the tourney completely or get a seed #5-10 or and lose early. Self's "down" years have been getting a #2-4 seed and losing early. Yes they stink when they happen but if I step back and take a wide look at it, if those are the bad years then I am OK with it.

Tom Izzo is widely accepted as one of the best coaches in the sport. His seed history since 2002? 10, 7, 7, 5, 6, 9, 5, 2, 5, 10, 1, 3 and 4. People ignore his crappy years because he they are so crappy that they don't under perform in the tourney; they just get sucky seeds and lose early.

Another serious reason why Self and KU gets their balls busted more than any other coach for tourney flameouts? When they happen KU screws up a lot of people's brackets and they get mad about it. Sad, but true. Like I said, it';s a good problem to have when your bad years are conference titles, top 4 seeds a an early exit from the ncaa tourney. So long as he gets to the Elite Eight and beyond on a fairly regular basis, I am okey dokey.

 

[twocoach]

The only time you can afford to be arrogant in sports is if you are in fact an actual competitor. Being some ******* in the stands doesn't afford you a damn thing.

One man's confidence that the team he cheers for is playing well and will have success is seen as arrogance by the vast majority of the shallow end of the fan base of teams that root against that team. Standard fare.

 

[Rhoadhoused]

The "problem" is that every single coach and program has down years and up years. Most coaches down years are truly down years where they miss the tourney completely or get a seed #5-10 or and lose early. Self's "down" years have been getting a #2-4 seed and losing early. Yes they stink when they happen but if I step back and take a wide look at it, if those are the bad years then I am OK with it.

Tom Izzo is widely accepted as one of the best coaches in the sport. His seed history since 2002? 10, 7, 7, 5, 6, 9, 5, 2, 5, 10, 1, 3 and 4. People ignore his crappy years because he they are so crappy that they don't under perform in the tourney; they just get sucky seeds and lose early.

Another serious reason why Self and KU gets their balls busted more than any other coach for tourney flameouts? When they happen KU screws up a lot of people's brackets and they get mad about it. Sad, but true. Like I said, it';s a good problem to have when your bad years are conference titles, top 4 seeds a an early exit from the ncaa tourney. So long as he gets to the Elite Eight and beyond on a fairly regular basis, I am okey dokey.

Before Bill Self, the last time KU lost to a 9 seed or worse was 1992. I can only see 2 losses to a 9 seed or worse at Kansas all the way back to 1978 where there is no more seeding information.They made the tourney every single year in that span. I'm just saying, Kansas has another standard even past Michigan State.

Bill Self impeccably places his team in a great position in the post season with a great seed and obviously kills it in conference play, but in the context of being the coach of Kansas he loses a lot more games to low seeds than you would expect.

He has also won a national title and lost in the title game, which is obviously good but at Kansas that's more once in a decade or so than once in a lifetime like it would be at many other schools. Kansas just has that kind of advantage.

 

[twocoach]

Before Bill Self, the last time KU lost to a 9 seed or worse was 1992. I can only see 2 losses to a 9 seed or worse at Kansas all the way back to 1978 where there is no more seeding information.They made the tourney every single year in that span. I'm just saying, Kansas has another standard even past Michigan State.

Bill Self impeccably places his team in a great position in the post season with a great seed and obviously kills it in conference play, but in the context of being the coach of Kansas he loses a lot more games to low seeds than you would expect.

He has also won a national title and lost in the title game, which is obviously good but at Kansas that's more once in a decade or so than once in a lifetime like it would be at many other schools. Kansas just has that kind of advantage.

 

[Rhoadhoused]

Great counter argument!

 

[twocoach]

Great counter argument!

If you're going to start talking about playing double digit seeds in 1992 with no concept that the world of college basketball has changed a bit since then then there really is no point in making a counter argument. You have chosen your path and will continue on it endlessly.

 

[Rhoadhoused]

If you're going to start talking about playing double digit seeds in 1992 with no concept that the world of college basketball has changed a bit since then then there really is no point in making a counter argument. You have chosen your path and will continue on it endlessly.

Is it really all that unreasonable to say that in the past 40 years KU has lost to 7 9 seeds or worse and 5 have been with Self? I don't care how you characterize or spin that, it's more than enough data to show he struggles with low seeds more than he should. You can't possibly argue against that.

It has nothing to do with my stubbornness... that is just an indisputable fact. Hell, he lost to Bucknell and Bradley in back to back years! Are you going to argue that Bradley and Bucknell beat KU because lower seeds are that much better in the mid 2000s than they were in the 80s and 90s? And I just said since 1992, that includes all the years between 1992 and 2004..... so I don't see what your problem is. KU never had an issue with low seeds in the early 2000s before Self got there. Was there a big shift immediately in 2005?

 

[Cyclonesince78]

I can't believe the complete BS on the last 3 pages from ISU fans. Pump the brakes unless you want to continue to look foolish.

 

[CoKane]

I can't believe the complete BS on the last 3 pages from ISU fans. Pump the brakes unless you want to continue to look foolish.

Well one of the guys was Cyber, and you know the brakes are always broken with him.

 

[twocoach]

Is it really all that unreasonable to say that in the past 40 years KU has lost to 7 9 seeds or worse and 5 have been with Self? I don't care how you characterize or spin that, it's more than enough data to show he struggles with low seeds more than he should. You can't possibly argue against that.

It has nothing to do with my stubbornness... that is just an indisputable fact. Hell, he lost to Bucknell and Bradley in back to back years! Are you going to argue that Bradley and Bucknell beat KU because lower seeds are that much better in the mid 2000s than they were in the 80s and 90s? And I just said since 1992, that includes all the years between 1992 and 2004..... so I don't see what your problem is. KU never had an issue with low seeds in the early 2000s before Self got there. Was there a big shift immediately in 2005?

 

[Rhoadhoused]

Feel free to give literally any defense instead of deflecting. I'll give you till tomorrow, I'll check back then.

 

[twocoach]

Feel free to give literally any defense instead of deflecting. I'll give you till tomorrow, I'll check back then.

You'll give me till tomorrow? OR WHAT?

 

[Go2Guy]

Here's my point on Bill Self:

Losses vs 9 seed or worse at Kansas in 11 years: 5 (#9 UNI, #10 Stanford, #14 Bucknell, #13 Bradley, #11 VCU

.

certainly a number of games of under performance in the big Dance has been Self's big knock. I think he had one, or two early exits at Illinois too - as a high seed.