City Council Approves 40-Acre Entertainment District

[aeroclone]

I was waiting for you to point to a concrete example of a project like this in an outer ring suburb where this has/is working now. Do you have one? If this is a slam dunk, there should be plenty of examples to point to.

My main skepticism is on sustainability because in the end, that is what eventually hurts the city and thus the homeowners. There is a pretty long list of splash projects around the country that have left cities with a ton of related above and below ground infrastructure to maintain without the corresponding necessary property tax base to pay for it all as time roll forward.

Just keeping it in KC with P&L, Lenexa is doing something just like this, and it has been very successful to date.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.kansascity.com/news/business/article217273380.html

These things are going up all over here. Town Center in Leawood, Corbin Park, Blu Hawk and Prairie Fire in Overland Park. Olathe is looking at something similar at their old mall site.

Meanwhile, the P&L that is so revered by ISU fans with fond memories of weekends at the B12 tourney has missed revenue targets from day 1 and left taxpayers with the bill.

https://www.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article9530081.html

I know your schtick is downtown good suburb bad, but things like this are totally a case by case deal. These types of developments can work or fail in either locale.

 

[Cardinal and Gold]

Waukee has changed so much from when I was growing up there. At that time the "entertainment district" would have been considered Centennial Park, The Triangle, and Philly's Finest. (Old-town Waukee people know what I'm talking about)

 

[SoapyCy]

Is every suburb going to have its own entertainment district? Hopefully they don't cannibalize each other.

what if, and hear me out, you didn't build giant facility surrounded by parking lots in cities that require you to have a car?

 

[capitalcityguy]

I know your schtick is downtown good suburb bad, but things like this are totally a case by case deal. These types of developments can work or fail in either locale.

Not quite.

Traditional development patterns in cities or suburbs tend to be financially sustainable long term.
Suburban development patterns in cities or suburbs tend to be financial unsustainable long term.

It is all in here.

 

[CyDude16]

Cool idea, but I doubts about its success.

 

[Gunnerclone]

I’m just interested to see if Waukee can come from WAY behind and beat Ankeny and WDM to become the first 100k population suburb.

 

[Urbandale2013]

I’m just interested to see if Waukee can come from WAY behind and beat Ankeny and WDM to become the first 100k population suburb.

They don’t even have 25,000 estimated population.

 

[Boxerdaddy]

I’m just interested to see if Waukee can come from WAY behind and beat Ankeny and WDM to become the first 100k population suburb.

They don’t even have 25,000 estimated population.

+1 on December 3rd. Doing my part.

 

[BillBrasky4Cy]

what if, and hear me out, you didn't build giant facility surrounded by parking lots in cities that require you to have a car?

That's what the original plan was for the Prairie Trail neighborhood in Ankeny but then developers realized they needed support from residents outside of the PT area to make it profitable.

 

[GrappleCy]

Damn it, you got my hopes up that this was the Power and Light: Hilton edition thing. Waukee is very much not Ames.

 

[Cardinal and Gold]

Damn it, you got my hopes up that this was the Power and Light: Hilton edition thing. Waukee is very much not Ames.

Agree, Waukee should be added to the thread title to be more informational and less misleading. I too thought it was about the new project in the JTS and Hilton parking lots at first.

 

[dosry5]

Not quite.

Traditional development patterns in cities or suburbs tend to be financially sustainable long term.
Suburban development patterns in cities or suburbs tend to be financial unsustainable long term.

It is all in here.

Ahhh, capitalcityguy’s bible....alternatively titled “Hell is on a Cul de Sac”

 

[Scruff]

I moved from Waukee to Coralville (enemy territory). Waukee and Coralville both have city council's planning years ahead. For having nice roads its great, but from a tax standpoint it sucks. For Waukee's sake, I hope they spend wisely. Coralville just dropped below investment grade bond rating after starting their new arena. Sure glad my taxes are going to give hawk volleyball a home. Still prefer that versus cities like North Liberty that wait until the need for better roads has long passed before making improvements.

 

[ISUTex]

Sweet

Why pump the brakes? I think it will be a good thing. Not everybody wants to drive to downtown Des Moines all of the time. West Glen seems to be doing ok. That area is going to continue to grow, and those to the west of the WDM/Waukee area will probably be glad it's there. Just like people who live farther east of Ankeny/Altoona are glad that Ankeny and Altoona are there as an alternate to Downtown or WDM. Options are a good thing.

 

[SoapyCy]

That's what the original plan was for the Prairie Trail neighborhood in Ankeny but then developers realized they needed support from residents outside of the PT area to make it profitable.

oh I get it, but instead of acquiescing to a sprawl pattern that requires a car, why not expand the area that doesn't require a car?

 

[c.y.c.l.o.n.e.s]

Why pump the brakes? I think it will be a good thing. Not everybody wants to drive to downtown Des Moines all of the time. West Glen seems to be doing ok. That area is going to continue to grow, and those to the west of the WDM/Waukee area will probably be glad it's there. Just like people who live farther east of Ankeny/Altoona are glad that Ankeny and Altoona are there as an alternate to Downtown or WDM. Options are a good thing.

West Glen is making a comeback but it was in serious financial difficulty as recently as 2015.

 

[Gunnerclone]

oh I get it, but instead of acquiescing to a sprawl pattern that requires a car, why not expand the area that doesn't require a car?

That cat left the bag a long time ago and it’s not going back in.

 

[SoapyCy]

That cat left the bag a long time ago and it’s not going back in.

It could for new development and adaptive reuse.

 

[AuH2O]

The location is a good spot, especially with the new athletics facility being built in West Des Moines. The hotel will be filled a lot. I don't think you all understand the amount of money the metro area is missing out on by not having more tournaments of all kinds located here. I know there are several right now but the potential for more is massive. We are headed to KC this weekend for a boys soccer tourney, my wife and daughter were there last week for a girls tourney. They are hosting another next weekend as a college show case, they have one in early December for ODP (Olympic Development Program) teams. This does not count the numerous other soccer tourneys they have on top of all the other sports.

People are in hotels Friday and Saturday night and they flood restaurants throughout the day...not to mention other shopping they might do.

I think a few years down the road we'll see more hotels in that area as well as more indoor/outdoor use facilities in this area.

Guess I don't know about soccer and hockey, but it seems like Des Moines has tons of basketball tournaments and USSSA baseball events. I was always surprised to see teams from Omaha, Lincoln, and even KC at many of the USSSA baseball tournaments. Seems like there are multiple basketball tournaments going on most weekends during the season and one nearly every weekend in the offseason.

 

[AuH2O]

oh I get it, but instead of acquiescing to a sprawl pattern that requires a car, why not expand the area that doesn't require a car?

That's tough to pull off when you have damn near unlimited land and you're competing with similar shiny new businesses where people can drive their fat asses up to the front door and go in. I'm no urban planner, but when you're developing places like Ankeny or Waukee that are already pretty sprawling, it seems like getting a pedestrian-centered district to go is going to take more dense population centers than any of those places have. You could maybe do it at PT in Ankeny if it was mixed use and had a good number of DMACC students and maybe young professionals. Seems like a pedestrian-focused area needs:
- High density population in the immediate area that don't necessarily all need cars
- Have a venue or venues in the immediate area that have frequent events and have adequate hotel space to accommodate people wanting to stay in the area or are within walking distance

Otherwise you are depending on people coming from the area but not within the immediate development, and if it's a pain in the ass for people to go there because it's really inconvenient or expensive to park, then the businesses have a disadvantage.