They sure didn't seem to pair up very well (or teams didn't take it seriously). 8 out of our 10 games were 10+ point contests, with ISU going 4-4 in those (and 0-2 in closer games).
Big 12/SEC Challenge comes to an end. Thank god.
- Thread starter nallen34
- Start date
I like that all the games are played on the same Saturday as opposed to games being played over the course of 1-2 weeks like the other challenges. I'm 50/50 on it being in the middle of conference season. I see the pluses and minuses.
I think I'm in the minority, based on what I've seen on CF, I don't hate the mid-conference placement of the series. Definitely having it all in one day is better than being scattered.
Being able to do a one-day in early December would be ideal, but I assume that would be unrealistic because of early-season tournament schedules, and attempting to schedule around that.
Year 2 of Big 12/SEC might have been best-case arrangement -- it was played Dec. 3-6 (Wednesday thru Saturday). Similar to structure of ACC/Big Ten, although that was Monday through Thursday, for the most part.
Year 1 of B12/SEC was worst-case:
Thursday, Nov. 14 (1 game)
Monday, Dec. 2 (2)
Thursday, Dec. 5 (3)
Friday, Dec. 6 (2)
Tuesday, Dec. 10 (1)
Saturday, Dec. 21 (1)
Did every Big XII team get hosed or just us? 6/10 road games for the series and 4 road games out of the last 5. I don't understand why in an even game series, each participating team wouldn't get a 50/50 home/road schedule.
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I haven't checked, but common sense tells you we got hosed. There's no way all 10 teams played 6 road games.
A quick review of the schedules show most teams in the Big 12 had an even number of home and away games. ISU and TCU played 4 home/6 away. WVU and OU had 6 home and 4 away. Texas was +1 but for some reason did not play one year of the challenge like everyone else. Everyone else was balanced.
Dear God, that was such an outlandish take I thought you must be loading up with the sarcasm. I guess I overestimated you.
They had one game cancelled due to a COVID outbreak. Texas and Kentucky were scheduled to meet in '21 but didn't play.
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In case anyone missed it I am reposting what I learned about how this has been scheduled on the SEC side of things. I posted this in the other B12/SEC Challenge thread. In a nutshell, yes our perception that the SEC has enjoyed decidedly advantageous scheduling in this thing is backed up by the numbers.
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They can only go off of historical results when they schedule these. Last year the teams that were excluded from this year's challenge went 9-9, 9-9, 7-11, and 1-17 so yes, they didn't exclude a single upper division team or a team with an over .500 conference record. It is pure chance that one of those teams managed to turn it around and be a top team in their league this year but the point remains that it is scheduled with mostly bottom half teams from the previous year being excluded - advantage SEC. Even with A&M turning it around the other three teams are all in the bottom half thus far this year - advantage SEC.
Is it an accident that teams like Kentucky and Florida have been scheduled to play in this every year while some teams have been excluded 5 out of 9 times like Georgia, Mississippi State, and South Carolina? It will be 6 exclusions out of 10 for Georgia after this year.
Conference records during run of challenge:
Most excluded teams [exclusions]:
Georgia [5] 64-98 (.395)
Miss St [5] 68-94 (.420)
South Carolina [5] 75-85 (.469)
Missouri [4] 52-109 (.325)
Least excluded teams [exclusions]:
Kentucky [0] 121-40 (.752)
Florida [0] 98-62 (.613)
Arkansas [1] 95-66 (.590)
Tennessee [1] 93-68 (.578)
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They can only go off of historical results when they schedule these. Last year the teams that were excluded from this year's challenge went 9-9, 9-9, 7-11, and 1-17 so yes, they didn't exclude a single upper division team or a team with an over .500 conference record. It is pure chance that one of those teams managed to turn it around and be a top team in their league this year but the point remains that it is scheduled with mostly bottom half teams from the previous year being excluded - advantage SEC. Even with A&M turning it around the other three teams are all in the bottom half thus far this year - advantage SEC.
Is it an accident that teams like Kentucky and Florida have been scheduled to play in this every year while some teams have been excluded 5 out of 9 times like Georgia, Mississippi State, and South Carolina? It will be 6 exclusions out of 10 for Georgia after this year.
Conference records during run of challenge:
Most excluded teams [exclusions]:
Georgia [5] 64-98 (.395)
Miss St [5] 68-94 (.420)
South Carolina [5] 75-85 (.469)
Missouri [4] 52-109 (.325)
Least excluded teams [exclusions]:
Kentucky [0] 121-40 (.752)
Florida [0] 98-62 (.613)
Arkansas [1] 95-66 (.590)
Tennessee [1] 93-68 (.578)
The whole thing is really an excuse so that Kansas/Kentucky can play on a Saturday night in late January for ESPN ratings. That’s really all it’s been.
The ACC/SEC next year will be Duke/UNC/Kentucky playing every year
The ACC/SEC next year will be Duke/UNC/Kentucky playing every year
Meh. I quit watching the NBA because it goes too late. Realize it's an extreme, but I like how basketball ramps up dovetailed football winding down. No shadow for me at all. If anything it's the opposite. All the bowls besides the NY and nye bowls aren't all day enjoyment anymore. If ISU isn't playing I'm not watching football much after Thanksgiving weekend.
I would hate withing that long for BB.
Isn't the third loss the whorens? So add to that a team with an interim coach.
I'm with you. I kind of like the opportunity for one last non-conference resume win for bubble teams or for seeding, and generally there isn't much downside for a loss. I only pay attention to the non-ISU games because it's all on a single day. If it's played over multiple days in November or December, I probably won't watch more than one or two of the other teams' games.
Obviously there are some things that should have been improved about the challenge. The home/away issues are just weird. It shouldn't be that hard to make sure teams alternate playing home and away as much as possible. I also think that as long as the games were played in the middle of the conference season, they should have waited to set up the match-ups until early January or something. I think that would have helped get more even opponent quality and maybe would have helped avoid things like matching up Kansas and Kentucky nearly every year in favor of some more interesting, unique matchups that depend on how good teams actually are, not how good they're projected to be.
All that being said, I get why so many people here were especially annoyed with it this year. The combination of being banged up and being in the conference title race certainly makes a random non-conference game in late January seem pretty useless.
Little difference between April and June when both end. Don't worry the powers that be will not move the season, but they should.
Doing a late-December/early-January draw each season for matchups would be somewhat helpful. I think Stanz noted that in his Challenge preview (and I've seen it mentioned on CF boards and by other analysts the past few years).
Another thing that doesn't help the home/away or repeated matchups is having the two leagues with imbalanced number of members -- ACC/Big Ten had been able to do it OK for rotation as 14 members v 15. B12/SEC has been 10 v 14 the entire time.
This is a yawner for me.
The ONLY reason these conference challenge events occur is to bring viewers to ESPN. So ESPN isn't going to show teams that stink and aren't going to drive viewership.
It is ESPN setting up an ACC v SEC challenge and ending the ACC vs. Big10 and SEC vs Big12 events. Seems like the logical step with ESPN's bigger media rights alignment with the SEC and ACC Conferences.
Since the Big12 will have a media deal with ESPN & Fox go forward and Fox is picking up Big12 hoops games- maybe we will see a Big12 vs Big10 or Big12 vs Pac12 Challenge.
Absolute no to a PAC 10 challenge. That league is trash in basketball. Let them have their SWAC challenge that they lose
I was waiting for this response from someone. I wasn't arguing that ESPN didn't have a business interest in scheduling it that way. We all know WHY it is scheduled that way, but the point remains that THERE IS an advantage which the SEC homers claim doesn't exist. The fact that the Big 12 came out on top of this 5-3 seasons with 2 ties and won 55 of the games to 44 for the SEC despite the scheduling advantage is impressive.
I say shove basketball back 2 weeks. That will clean up all November for the most part, have the bad non cons go against the CCGs and early bowl games. It also will have students back for the conference slate and not missing the first two weeks of the season.
