A midsummer debate: Returners vs Newcomers, who wins?
- Thread starter CyCal
- Start date
Every one of the returners at one point during the season started on a top 10 team. So yeah, I'll go with the returners.
Last edited:
I'd say the newcomers:
Morris>Custer
Long=Cooke
Thomas<<BDJ
Niang>McKay
Hogue=Nader
I think BDJ would be the difference. Don't think anyone in the returners team could guard him and no one behind them to clean up the mistake.
Morris>Custer
Long=Cooke
Thomas<<BDJ
Niang>McKay
Hogue=Nader
I think BDJ would be the difference. Don't think anyone in the returners team could guard him and no one behind them to clean up the mistake.
We are in serious trouble if our returnees, with their skill and experience, don't beat the newcomers. Mind you, we have some great newcomers, but if they beat the returnees, I am worried. Did you read the article about Hoiberg. Mackay has not played a competitive game in 1.5 years; there will be rust. Thomas hit the second most 3's of any rookie in our history (hope his boo-birds took note of that). Morris could be the best PG in the Big 12.
In MHO, those voting for the newcomers have been drinking too much of the Koolaid and are trying to pull our leggs. But I agree it would be close, because who wants to wack your future team mates?
But thanks to the OP. Neat question and thread.
In MHO, those voting for the newcomers have been drinking too much of the Koolaid and are trying to pull our leggs. But I agree it would be close, because who wants to wack your future team mates?
But thanks to the OP. Neat question and thread.
Does Cooke count for the "new guys," not the Greek, given the former can't play this year?
Anyways...
1 - I figure Custer sounds talented enough but Morris has a year of B12 ball and some mentoring from DeAndre Kane to kick him up a gear or two
2 - haven't seen BDJ in cardinal and gold, and Naz is a good (if streaky) spot-up shooter, so I have to think that BDJ would "get his" here
3 - Cooke is, from the stats at OSU, the best shooter in this group of ten, so advantage there
4 - Nader and Hogue is quite the matchup, but we know what Hogue can do against a high level of competition
5 - quite the battle of top-notch offense versus top-notch defense, but Niang gets his against anybody, if he can't beat McKay down low then he'll just shoot over the top of him
So, in the end, to me...
The returners
Morris > Custer (at this point, just on experience alone, and Morris was quietly very good last year, I think his transition into giving us a second solid guard in the B12 and freeing DeAndre up really made us better)
BDJ > Long (new guy, but a proven one at a high level of competition, who was the best player on his team
Cooke > Thomas (just on shooting grounds alone, which is really this person's role in the offense)
Hogue > Nader (again, experience)
Niang > McKay (sure, but I imagine McKay might be able to slow Niang down, but not stop him)
I don't think Cooke and BDJ are going to make threes as *that* much higher of a clip than Morris and Thomas, nor score like Niang, to make up the difference.
Anyways...
1 - I figure Custer sounds talented enough but Morris has a year of B12 ball and some mentoring from DeAndre Kane to kick him up a gear or two
2 - haven't seen BDJ in cardinal and gold, and Naz is a good (if streaky) spot-up shooter, so I have to think that BDJ would "get his" here
3 - Cooke is, from the stats at OSU, the best shooter in this group of ten, so advantage there
4 - Nader and Hogue is quite the matchup, but we know what Hogue can do against a high level of competition
5 - quite the battle of top-notch offense versus top-notch defense, but Niang gets his against anybody, if he can't beat McKay down low then he'll just shoot over the top of him
So, in the end, to me...
The returners
Morris > Custer (at this point, just on experience alone, and Morris was quietly very good last year, I think his transition into giving us a second solid guard in the B12 and freeing DeAndre up really made us better)
BDJ > Long (new guy, but a proven one at a high level of competition, who was the best player on his team
Cooke > Thomas (just on shooting grounds alone, which is really this person's role in the offense)
Hogue > Nader (again, experience)
Niang > McKay (sure, but I imagine McKay might be able to slow Niang down, but not stop him)
I don't think Cooke and BDJ are going to make threes as *that* much higher of a clip than Morris and Thomas, nor score like Niang, to make up the difference.
This isn't even the whole roster and keep in mind that Cooke can't play this year but compare this to Old Mother Hoiberg's complete (eligible) cupboard when he first entered the kitchen:
Jordan Railey F
Bubu Palo RF
Melvin Ejim F
Jake Anderson RS
Diante Garrett S
Scott Christopherson RJ
Eric McKnight F
Calvin Godfrey F
Jamie Vanderbeeken RS
John Lamb S
Not a lot of bones for the dog. So very far have we come.
Very true! So, not to derail but where is the final four this year and in 2016? TIA
True, to be fair Mt. Olympus really should be on the newcomers roster rather than Cooke, but since Cooke is already on campus and it makes the teams much more even I thought I would swap them out for this completely hypothetical situation.
I probably should have noted that Cooke will not be playing this year, though most people on this thread are aware of that by now.
I'm going to go with the Returners, but this really is a great question IMO. I don't think it would be an easy win by any means, and I think the Newcomers would win some games too if they played a 7 game series.
In fact, in a 7 game series, I think it could be the Returners winning it 4-2 or 4-3.
I love the raw talent of the Newcomers. Guys like BDJ, Nader, and McKay would cause some real matchup problems for the Returners IMO. But the experience and leadership of the Returners would allow them to pull out some close games IMO.
Just think though for a minute how awesome this all is? It's actually hard to determine who would win between our Returners and our Newcomers. Only the best teams in the country, like Kentucky, KU, Duke, etc can probably say this. Look at a team like Iowa, and the Returners would beat their Newcomers by 50 or more points IMO. That isn't necessarily a good thing.
In fact, in a 7 game series, I think it could be the Returners winning it 4-2 or 4-3.
I love the raw talent of the Newcomers. Guys like BDJ, Nader, and McKay would cause some real matchup problems for the Returners IMO. But the experience and leadership of the Returners would allow them to pull out some close games IMO.
Just think though for a minute how awesome this all is? It's actually hard to determine who would win between our Returners and our Newcomers. Only the best teams in the country, like Kentucky, KU, Duke, etc can probably say this. Look at a team like Iowa, and the Returners would beat their Newcomers by 50 or more points IMO. That isn't necessarily a good thing.
You realize the returners all played significant minutes to take the team to the sweet 16...and it's hard to not choose them
IMO it would come down to 3 pt shooting of the returners. 5 guys who could spread the floor would make McKay (defensively and rebounding some what) less of a factor and I could see the returners start to run away with it. But in my best Lee Corso voice "Not so fast my friend!" - if the returners struggle shooting outside (specifically Niang) I would expect a more even match, maybe even an advantage to the noobs.
Would be a lot of fun and I would pay $ to see this game.
Would be a lot of fun and I would pay $ to see this game.
Put my money on the returners. People are drinking a bit too much kool-aid. If this game happened at the end of the year, yeah maybe the new kids could put together a game, but my money would probably still be on the returners.
Wow, I am really surprised at how many people are taking the new guys. The new guys have yet to play a minute of Big 12 basketball.
Some of you are saying the new guys are going to beat the Big 12's second leading rebounder, the league's leader in assist to turnover ratio, Mr. Clutch, and one of the best all-around players in the league.
The returner's take it easily. I have high hopes and expectations but I think some of you need to take it down a notch.
Some of you are saying the new guys are going to beat the Big 12's second leading rebounder, the league's leader in assist to turnover ratio, Mr. Clutch, and one of the best all-around players in the league.
The returner's take it easily. I have high hopes and expectations but I think some of you need to take it down a notch.
The 2015 Final Four is in Indianapolis (Hilton East if we make it there). If ISU gets into the west regional and plays in either Seattle or Portland, I'll be there. The 2016 Final Four is in Houston, and I couldn't find any info on the early round locations.
