3 of the last 4 years

[CloneIce]

This. Pre-season interviews from CSP always seem to have Tre in his comments to leadership and effort. Couple that with his last month of the season last year, ability to hit the 3 and being a solids defender...missing a guy like that particularly on Wednesday against a solid SDSU club, that’s going to have an impact. Give me 5-10 games with this roster and a healthy Tre (who was a starter) and see how it meshes together.

Tre is a guy who will help the team, but he is just a guy. He is a role player on a good Big 12 team, he is not a difference maker type in our conference.

Hopefully the team gels and we turn things around. I just wish it didn’t take Prohm so much of the season to figure out his roster and play style, almost every year.

 

[mj4cy]

Things aren't ideal but its a long season and we should be happy we even get to watch the games this year with everything going on in the world.

Hoping to see improvement with this team, if not then I think its time for a change of direction but might have to wait given covid and budgets ect.

 

[RotatingColumn]

ISU starts two seniors and three juniors. And some of them have redshirted and are old for their class.

How many mid majors have to rely on the transfer market for upperclassmen?

 

[blutarsky]

Agreed. Between Prohm’s recruiting success with players leaving early and his recruiting misses he has not been able to establish a roster for more than a year or two. Thats where Fred had his success. This freshmen class looks to have multiple 3-4 year guys (fingers crossed) and Hunter coming in next year. This roster is a huge talent upgrade that is trying to gel with 7 newcomers and lost to a NCAA tourney team by 3 while shooting 17% from 3. While Iowa State should win a game like this, the sky is not falling.

I give Prohm credit for landing talent like Wigginton, THT and Haliburton. Having all three leave left a void. I give Prohm blame for the likes of Talley, Beverly, Brase, and Nixon to fill the void. They were misses. This current Freshman class is what Prohm's job rides on and it should. He needs this class to stay 3-4 years and have NCAA tourney success.

 

[cyfan92]

This seems pretty good. 4 out of 5 seems reasonable. Even sometimes getting 3 out of 5 might be ok depending on the circumstances.

As long as those 3 years are special. I agree. We aren't kansas and can reload every off-season.

 

[BryceC]

I think pretty much every year is reasonable. Making the tournament is easier than ever with the net rankings. Less mid majors make up the at large spots. Even just being 17-15 (8-10 in conference) puts us in the bubble and likely in most years. That's really not asking a ton.

Correct me if I'm wrong but only 3 teams ever have made it with 15 losses. as an at large. That's false.

Historically, it's easier now to make the tournament. However, we're never going to make it every year and I think it's unfair to expect it.

 

[larrysarmy]

Tre is a guy who will help the team, but he is just a guy. He is a role player on a good Big 12 team, he is not a difference maker type in our conference.

Hopefully the team gels and we turn things around. I just wish it didn’t take Prohm so much of the season to figure out his roster and play style, almost every year.

He is just a guy. But if what CSP has been espousing, he’s a glue guy, a culture guy...I think this team needs all of that. Not saying he’s a savior or anything, but he’s an important part of the sum of parts that can make a solid young team.

 

[Baseline23]

'Member when we made fun of EIU and posted hilarious memes of Mad Fran? Good times.

 

[CloneIce]

How many mid majors have to rely on the transfer market for upperclassmen?

I’m not sure what point you are trying to make here, but Steve’s failures in recruiting, development, and retention are not a valid excuse for losing to a low major at Hilton (the Horizon is not a mid major league). They are the cause of our current woes, not an excuse for them.

 

[CloneIce]

I give Prohm credit for landing talent like Wigginton, THT and Haliburton. Having all three leave left a void. I give Prohm blame for the likes of Talley, Beverly, Brase, and Nixon to fill the void. They were misses. This current Freshman class is what Prohm's job rides on and it should. He needs this class to stay 3-4 years and have NCAA tourney success.

The biggest void we have now is last years failed class of high school recruits. Three out of four gone, with two Plan A fall signees not even making it to the first game. That class should be the ones stepping in to replace them, but he failed in his evaluations that year.

 

[CycloneErik]

I’m not sure what point you are trying to make here, but Steve’s failures in recruiting, development, and retention are not a valid excuse for losing to a low major at Hilton (the Horizon is not a mid major league).

And doing so multiple times. Once a decade or so, mayyyyyybe, but multiple times in inexcusable.

 

[Urbandale2013]

Correct me if I'm wrong but only 3 teams ever have made it with 15 losses. as an at large. That's false.

Historically, it's easier now to make the tournament. However, we're never going to make it every year and I think it's unfair to expect it.

I don’t know about your question but I think it depends on how you look at it. I think we should expect NCAA tournament every year with the understanding that sometimes stuff happens. Not making the tournament is a bad year. It shouldn’t mean you are fired but it is still a failure of a year. I think saying 9/10 or even 8/10 is semi reasonable. But if that’s your expectations then it is more of a you absolutely have to hit that mark.

Even if somehow we make the tournament this year we are still way below those marks. We’d have to make it the next 5 years to hit the lower end.

 

[PineClone]

CSP says things along the lines of: not getting ball pressure, not implementing defensive philosophies from practices, not getting the ball to the post, not having energy on defense, lack of ball movement, we need to get Solo rebounding, etc...

Here's the disconnect for me...Why then is he not calling a timeout and demanding that they do AT LEAST one of those things? Are the players just doing their own thing in games? It sure looks that way, and his post-game comments verify this to be true. Can he not find any players on the team who will do these basic things? This is the same stuff we've been seeing year after year.

 

[clonehoodie]

One reason we shoot so many 3s (bad shots, bad team), is that guys know if they give up the ball, it isn't coming back.

Like what happened to anyone passing to Georges or Deonte. But Monte' was able to overcome it.

Oh....it would have been funny to watch SP try to bench Deonte for not being a team player.

 

[Neptune78]

'Member when we made fun of EIU and posted hilarious memes of Mad Fran? Good times.

Don't worry, those memes and good times will be back next year.

 

[TheHonestCycloneFan]

I sarcastically joked on Twitter this morning how unfair it is that CSP is the only coach in D1 saddled with new players every season. But all sarcasm aside, how is it that he's so bad? Ridiculously bad.

Watching his teams play, you see the lack of effort and preparation. The offense he runs is nonexistent and his lineups and in-game rotations make no sense. Prohm wouldn't receive as much slack if his team played hard and were fundamentally sound but that is not the case since he has taken over the program. Acquiring talent shouldn't justify mediocre results.

 

[madguy30]

One reason we shoot so many 3s (bad shots, bad team), is that guys know if they give up the ball, it isn't coming back.

Like what happened to anyone passing to Georges or Deonte. But Monte' was able to overcome it.

Oh....it would have been funny to watch SP try to bench Deonte for not being a team player.

The odds of points getting scored or someone being open from another angle because of help to Georges were way higher than what we're looking at now and was very different.

The last three years it's someone getting it on the perimeter and either a 3 or driving into a crowd. When the 18-19 team had the ball working around it was beautiful but they would then get bored with it.

 

[blutarsky]

The biggest void we have now is last years failed class of high school recruits. Three out of four gone, with two Plan A fall signees not even making it to the first game. That class should be the ones stepping in to replace them, but he failed in his evaluations that year.

Prohm doesn't have the luxury of missing on an entire class. And his track record with supplementing with transfers is sketchy at best.

Watching his teams play, you see the lack of effort and preparation. The offense he runs is nonexistent and his lineups and in-game rotations make no sense. Prohm wouldn't receive as much slack if his team played hard and were fundamentally sound but that is not the case since he has taken over the program. Acquiring talent shouldn't justify mediocre results.

I agree. I do think the way Prohm wants to play is completely reliant on his players skill level. He’s shown that he’s not the X and O guy that draws up a play. His philosophy worked with Hoibergs talent. Prohm hasn’t been able to do it with his own recruits and personnel consistently .... yet. This team won’t succeed until they gel together and trust one another.

Hoiberg had the ability to not only get talent but get the most out of that talent as a team. Prohm has had too many “Cam Lard” moments.

 

[TheHonestCycloneFan]

Prohm doesn't have the luxury of missing on an entire class. And his track record with supplementing with transfers is sketchy at best.

I agree. I do think the way Prohm wants to play is completely reliant on his players skill level. He’s shown that he’s not the X and O guy that draws up a play. His philosophy worked with Hoibergs talent. Prohm hasn’t been able to do it with his own recruits and personnel consistently .... yet. This team won’t succeed until they gel together and trust one another.

Hoiberg had the ability to not only get talent but get the most out of that talent as a team. Prohm has had too many “Cam Lard” moments.

And what you just described is the main difference. That's not to say Hoiberg didn't have mishaps but he was generally able to get the team to buy in to the system and trust each other. Prohm laden teams are very reliant on hero ball and trying to do things their own way.

 

[blutarsky]

And what you just described is the main difference. That's not to say Hoiberg didn't have mishaps but he was generally able to get the team to buy in to the system and trust each other. Prohm laden teams are very reliant on hero ball and trying to do things their own way.

Talent aside ... I assume with this roster being mostly new -and the off-season they missed- Prohm wasn’t able to install much “offense”. Could be hero ball for the next few weeks, but we should see improvement as the season wears on.