3 games in; how good is the offense?

[Cfinnerty16]

Iowa is NOT the best defense we’ll play. Maybe the most sound, but we’ll play way better DLs (starting Saturday), and teams with better speed and ability at LB and DB. Iowa gave our OL very few problems and we drove all over them.

They are EASILY the best all around defense we will play. Now if you're talking about better Defensive Lineman, that's fair. But Iowa has 2 NFL linebackers and one of the better defensive coordinators in all of college football. (as much as it pains me to say that.) We'll play faster defenses, but that doesn't mean they're better.

 

[BCClone]

They are EASILY the best all around defense we will play. Now if you're talking about better Defensive Lineman, that's fair. But Iowa has 2 NFL linebackers and one of the better defensive coordinators in all of college football. (as much as it pains me to say that.) We'll play faster defenses, but that doesn't mean they're better.

Which two? I believe Campbell will probably be, but you thinking Jacobs? We all thought Rose would be one and I don't think he even is on a practice squad.

 

[Cfinnerty16]

Which two? I believe Campbell will probably be, but you thinking Jacobs? We all thought Rose would be one and I don't think he even is on a practice squad.

The top 10 linebacker corps in college football ahead of the 2022 season | College Football | PFF

Campbell of course, but also Jacobs or Benson, especially since pass coverage in the NFL for linebackers continues to matter more and more.

 

[VeloClone]

Our offense/defense strategies are a little odd when compared to each other. Our defense is one that says it's hard to drive the length of the field so we will keep from giving up long shots and hold them to FGs at worst.

Our offense looks to go with shorter, high percentage plays and not go deep in taking the idea of using sustained drives and driving the length of the field.

Why I've always said, if you want to stop a teams offense, look no further than the defense that their own team runs. Many times the HC will have a defense that is suited to stop their own offense.

This is somewhat true. However what the ISU defense was designed to stop was the spread quick strike offenses of the Big 12. They would count on the offenses not being able to play patiently and feeling they had to go for the big play even if that was what Heacock was taking away. Once they go for the big play and it is defended then they are behind the chains and the defense can clamp down and get off the field. When the 3-3 stack has faced a truly patient offense it has been a lot tougher to get off the field.

 

[stewart092284]

Which two? I believe Campbell will probably be, but you thinking Jacobs? We all thought Rose would be one and I don't think he even is on a practice squad.

Campbell for sure is drafted. I don't know how early, probably mid rounds or early late rounds? I guess could be higher but I don't know....

SI. com has Jacobs as a first round draft pick - I'm not sure I see THAT but he is another NFL guy for sure.

That defense has several - Moss likely day three
Van Ness - could declare but could come back. If nothing else he's an exceptional punt blocker
Meriweather? - Some say Day 3 for him but I honestly don't really know


But in theory if SI is correct - that would essentially be half the defense that could get drafted at some point. There's not a ton of non-Elite (Bama, Ohio State, Clemson, Georgia) defenses that can say that.




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I think for me the biggest thing is a little bit on the OL and TE's... I think the Offensive line is making progress, hopefully Remsburg is back soon although rust will certainly be a factor - but I want to see us win a slug - fest against Baylor or another very physical defense.

We did it once with Iowa - but they're offense is so trash that even though we had our own issues that game that it gave us some grace and breathing room.

Can we impose ourselves on a Baylor, or Kansas who has had an explosive offense, or Okie State who has an offense that can score with us? That is the one question remaining I have - can we win a heavy weight fight with an opposing offense that can score.

We proved we can win a heavy weight slugfest or bar fight - now let's see how we far against a skilled fighter (Baylor, Okie State, etc) instead of a pure brawler (Iowa).

And for the record - its the same question I have for the defensive line and defense overall. Or rather defensively how do we adapt to competent offenses with mobile QB's? I can't lie. Kansas, the more I watch, the more they impress.


Also on offense - Dekkers. How does he react as he starts to see more and more complex defenses and now that teams have enough film on him to try to take away what he does well. Punch, counter punch, That's where my attention will be

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but back to the original meaning of the thread - I'd give the offense a solid B+ in non-conference play. Get rid of a few sketchy turnover moments and a couple other near turnover moments and it easily becomes an A.

 

[VeloClone]

I keep seeing this 'someone else needs to emerge' type of stuff while Noel is doing fine and then Shaw comes out and has a nice day Saturday.

Then guys like Hanika showing what they can do...

'But what if they start doubling Hutch!??'

Good!

I can't wait for them to double X, Noel and Shaw line up on the other side and they all run fly and corner routes while Brock (and Rus) take it to the other 7 guys trying to tackle him. Run that a few times and you will catch someone biting on play-action before too long.

 

[VeloClone]

I honestly think those stats are skewed some. Two teams that we were up big on and one we were in a rock fight with. Two of those games, we ran most of the second half while the passing game was the reason we were up big.

I'm all for balance but more importantly I'm for taking what the defense is giving you. If they are overloading the box, throw behind them. If they are dropping back in a heavy zone run it down their throats. If they are bringing pressure every play, set up a screen or hit the TEs right behind the LBs. I'm no Hayden Fry fan but he had it right when he said, "Scratch where it itches." He was going to adapt what he called to what the defense was prioritizing. They can't stress every area so hit them where they are weakest and make them adjust to you. Generally they will adjust and then you can adjust where you are attacking. It will often even out just as the run/pass ratio has evened out for ISU so far this year.

 

[madguy30]

I'm all for balance but more importantly I'm for taking what the defense is giving you. If they are overloading the box, throw behind them. If they are dropping back in a heavy zone run it down their throats. If they are bringing pressure every play, set up a screen or hit the TEs right behind the LBs. I'm no Hayden Fry fan but he had it right when he said, "Scratch where it itches." He was going to adapt what he called to what the defense was prioritizing. They can't stress every area so hit them where they are weakest and make them adjust to you. Generally they will adjust and then you can adjust where you are attacking. It will often even out just as the run/pass ratio has evened out for ISU so far this year.

It's kind of why I'm not too worried right now about someone not 'emerging' in the passing game.

Xaiver Hutchinson is #1 receiver. If he's open, you throw it to him and get the ball down the field. It can be as simple as that.

Schematically, one thing that I wonder about is the shorter crossing routes seem to be off/jumbled. Seems like someone should be higher or lower and they tend to get jammed up a bit.

 

[BillBrasky4Cy]

Iowa is NOT the best defense we’ll play. Maybe the most sound, but we’ll play way better DLs (starting Saturday), and teams with better speed and ability at LB and DB. Iowa gave our OL very few problems and we drove all over them.

Iowa has a good d-line and a really solid back 7. Their tackling in space is elite and they make you earn every yard. Iowa's defense is more than likely the best we will face.

 

[BillBrasky4Cy]

Why does anyone do it then? My assumption, given some of the scores you see in these early season games, is that some teams are capable of doing it. Some (like possibly ISU) are not.

Watch Okie State in those blowout games, Gundy is ruthless.

 

[VeloClone]

It's kind of why I'm not too worried right now about someone not 'emerging' in the passing game.

Xaiver Hutchinson is #1 receiver. If he's open, you throw it to him and get the ball down the field. It can be as simple as that.

Schematically, one thing that I wonder about is the shorter crossing routes seem to be off/jumbled. Seems like someone should be higher or lower and they tend to get jammed up a bit.

Yeah, X has the bulk of ISU's receiving yards but to be fair he has more receiving yards than all but 10 players in the country.

I'm not really concerned about X having more receiving yards than the next five guys. Really that is as much about spreading the ball around after X than it is anything else. Twelve other guys have caught a pass this season. X has accounted for only about a third of the catches (.308) and about a third of the rec yards (.354) so far this season.

Keep in mind that in 2018 Butler had .421 of ISU's receiving yards. I think that team did okay.

 

[ZuriCyclone]

We played three bad teams, Iowa should have been throttled like Ohio, but the offense and Special teams made multiple mistakes.

Some of those passes Hunter was throwing during the Ohio game will get picked off by Baylor, who are built for the air raid.

The defense played well against three really bad offense, will find out if they are good against an actual P3 offense.

 

[VeloClone]

Watch Okie State in those blowout games, Gundy is ruthless.

Yes. A thousand times yes.

I was floored when Gundy had Sanders still in the game late in the 4th Q up by a ton. He will pour it on but Sanders will get a needless injury causing hit or all of those cumulative hits will impact Sanders' play in later weeks. I am not a fan of having your QB play needless minutes and take needless hits in the interest of running up the score. Or any other starter for that matter.

 

[CyLyte2]

This is somewhat true. However what the ISU defense was designed to stop was the spread quick strike offenses of the Big 12. They would count on the offenses not being able to play patiently and feeling they had to go for the big play even if that was what Heacock was taking away. Once they go for the big play and it is defended then they are behind the chains and the defense can clamp down and get off the field. When the 3-3 stack has faced a truly patient offense it has been a lot tougher to get off the field.

Tight Ends eat up a 30 stack defense. Ala, Iowa.

 

[NickTheGreat]

I'm cautiously optimistic.

I was skeptical of Dekkers going into the season but he looks really good. Obviously X is a stud, and Jirehl is solid as well.

But I also want to play a team that's worth a damn. I don't buy how good Iowa's defense is this year. I'm sure they're way better than average, but I think they're overrated.

 

[Frak]

Iowa has a good d-line and a really solid back 7. Their tackling in space is elite and they make you earn every yard. Iowa's defense is more than likely the best we will face.

I guess we'll agree to disagree. No doubt we score more than 10 in every other game, so scoring defense they might be the best. But, we drove the ball all over the field on them. They couldn't cover Hutchinson, couldn't get much pressure on Dekkers, couldn't stop Brock. I don't have to remind anyone that the Brock fumble was a total fluke. And, the Dekkers pick in the end zone was a bad decision by a young QB and that possession should have at least gotten us a FG.

I do agree that they are elite in tackling in space...pretty easily the best we'll see in that regard all year. They always are. I just think that when we run into DLs that can overpower our OL, we are going to have way more problems moving the ball. Teams like Baylor and Texas are going to be much bigger tests for our OL and everyone knows if you can't control the LOS, things get much more difficult.

 

[stewart092284]

I No doubt we score more than 10 in every other game, so scoring defense they might be the best. But, we drove the ball all over the field on them. They couldn't cover Hutchinson, couldn't get much pressure on Dekkers, couldn't stop Brock. I don't have to remind anyone that the Brock fumble was a total fluke. And, the Dekkers pick in the end zone was a bad decision by a young QB and that possession should have at least gotten us a FG.

I'm not saying you're wrong but you're basically describing every football game a fan has used to justify an outcome unless its a 24-21 game or some.

Every point you made is correct - just that's hard to do. Its why I hate the "if we score there" its a different game almost every fan whose ever been supportive of a team uses. Because you never know how that score in that scenario changes the game.

If we score earlier - does Iowa pull Petras? Does X-Y-Z happen in that scenario? Probably not - I think we still win but we will never know.

Now that I'm off that mini-rant again, I agree all your essential points - just disagree that Iowa's defense isn't elite.

 

[Frak]

I'm not saying you're wrong but you're basically describing every football game a fan has used to justify an outcome unless its a 24-21 game or some.

Every point you made is correct - just that's hard to do. Its why I hate the "if we score there" its a different game almost every fan whose ever been supportive of a team uses. Because you never know how that score in that scenario changes the game.

If we score earlier - does Iowa pull Petras? Does X-Y-Z happen in that scenario? Probably not - I think we still win but we will never know.

Now that I'm off that mini-rant again, I agree all your essential points - just disagree that Iowa's defense isn't elite.

Yeah, games can go a million different ways depending on what happens every play. I thought that the Brock fumble was a fluke, but the Pottebaum fumble was also something that wouldn't happen very often. Those two kind of even out to me. You can write off the pick from Dekkers, but we DO have a young QB who is going to make some bad decisions at times.

I'm more of the mindset of "who controls the LOS". That's how you win games. ISU, regardless of the mistakes they made, controlled the LOS on both offense and defense. I just don't think that we'll see that to that extent against Baylor, Texas, potentially OU and KSU. So even though iowa is elite in tackling in space, I think that we'll have a harder time putting together drives on those teams. We'll see I guess.

 

[exCYtable]

X has more receiving yards than next 5 Cyclones combined.

Worked for the Rams and Cooper Kupp last year just fine

 

[TedKumsher]

Iowa's defense really skews things a lot. Plus we really took our foot of the gas against SEMO and Ohio. None of the other Big 12 teams seem to do that.

Oklahoma did that against Nebraska.