2009 Iowa vs Iowa State matchup...

delt4cy

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May 11, 2006
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I'm arguing because you're taking credit away from Iowa's defensive backfield. You're implying that they're only worth a lick because of Iowa's killer pass rush. I pointed out that Iowa didn't have a killer pass rush - which shows that even more pressure was put on Iowa's DBs.

I'm not trying to take credit away from the Dbacks. I think they are a very solid group. But I think you would be naive to assume there will be no drop-off whatsover after losing the Big10 D-lineman of the year.

I'm merely trying to point out that other parts of the D will face more stress this year as opposed to last.

Those stats do bring up an interesting point on Ballard and Clayborn (sp?). What were their sack totals? With the weakest "pass rush" in the Big 10 losing it's interior d-line, do you expect them to improve that total this year?
 

trajanJ

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Sep 11, 2008
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Why are you guys arguing about this? It's pretty easy to figure out who's going to win. The home team.
 

DJK15

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Apr 17, 2008
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Those stats do bring up an interesting point on Ballard and Clayborn (sp?). What were their sack totals? With the weakest "pass rush" in the Big 10 losing it's interior d-line, do you expect them to improve that total this year?

Iowa's sack numbers do not concern me. Iowa hardly ever blitzes - the DLine holds up the blockers and lets the LBs do the work, and Iowa has very good LBs.
 

djcubby

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Nov 24, 2006
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Rarely do great interior linemen have high sack numbers. What they do is put pressure on the QB up the middle and require double, sometimes triple teams. This takes men away from other responsibilities such as stopping a LB blitz or covering a rushing end. They may have had huge sack numbers, but you can't tell me that King and Kroul weren't disruptive to the passing games of other teams.
 

delt4cy

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May 11, 2006
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Even though we disagree, I do enjoy conversing about Football.

So the question becomes: Is Iowa's defense soooo good it doesn't need to pressure the QB.......

or ....

are the Big 10's offenses soooo bad that even with no QB pressure they still can't produce.
 

KMAC_ATTACK

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Feb 20, 2007
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Iowa's sack numbers do not concern me. Iowa hardly ever blitzes - the DLine holds up the blockers and lets the LBs do the work, and Iowa has very good LBs.

Agreed DJK - but, you have to agree that Iowas Controlled line attack does consume OL and it leads to early pressure that has no chance of getting to the qb....that doesnt keep the qb from happy feet'in a bad throw which may contribute to Iowas robust 23 interceptions.

When a LB is making 5 interceptions, either thats a lot of tipped balls or a lot of check down hot reads. I would disagree that Iowa does not blitz a lot, they do so in favorable positions. They play to their strength - the LB's right now. They would rather have a DL shoot a gap and control 2 OL then go for a one on one matchup and get handled leaving a OL to scrape and get onto the LB. Its playing smart football and thats one thing Iowa has done since KF got there.....Last year, ISU defense did not play or scheme to any strength - instead they seemed passive and let the offenses dictate the tone, we hope that is soon to change!!!!

Iowa will find out in week 2!!!!!
 

DodgerHawki

Active Member
Apr 1, 2009
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It's tough to have a high number of sacks when several of your opponents aren't aware that the forward pass is a legal play.

And yet, Iowa's opponents averaged more pass attempts per game (35.6) than did Iowa State's (31). I know, part of this is because Iowa got the lead against some opponents and forced them to throw more often. But there's no arguing that sacks were NOT a huge part of Iowa's pass defense last year.
I wish Iowa got more sacks last year, but as a whole, the pass defense was effective. It's hard to argue with a pass efficiency defense of No. 5 in the nation. Picked off 23 passes and gave up only 9 TD's, and teams averaged only 5.5 yards per pass attempt on Iowa's defense.
 

KMAC_ATTACK

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Feb 20, 2007
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Or Pat Angerer's just the best MLB in the Big 10. :biggrin:

Sorry, most knowledgeable people that cover big ten football consider Sean Lee from Penn State a much better prospect and rate him as the 3rd best ILB in the nation and Angerer is the 12th.....

not doggin him, because ISU would love to have an ILB that was rated 12th and had 5 interceptions last year!!!!

Just sayin
 

Cyclonestate78

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May 23, 2008
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And yet, Iowa's opponents averaged more pass attempts per game (35.6) than did Iowa State's (31). I know, part of this is because Iowa got the lead against some opponents and forced them to throw more often. But there's no arguing that sacks were NOT a huge part of Iowa's pass defense last year.
I wish Iowa got more sacks last year, but as a whole, the pass defense was effective. It's hard to argue with a pass efficiency defense of No. 5 in the nation. Picked off 23 passes and gave up only 9 TD's, and teams averaged only 5.5 yards per pass attempt on Iowa's defense.

I guess we will find out this fall how those numbers translate into what they do on the field this season.
 

DJK15

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Apr 17, 2008
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Sorry, most knowledgeable people that cover big ten football consider Sean Lee from Penn State a much better prospect and rate him as the 3rd best ILB in the nation and Angerer is the 12th.....

We'll see what kind of a player he is after blowing out his knee. I'll still take Angerer.
 

KMAC_ATTACK

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I would expect nothing less from a hawkeye fan....even if a player is better, you'd rather have your hawk.....

Angerer 113 career stops
Lee - 234 career stops.....

Ummm who would we rather have....
Tim Tebow or Ricki Stanzi......umm oh yeah thats easy, we want ricki bobbi!!!!!

Who would we rather have....
Dez Bryant or DJK.....oh yeah, we want DJK cuz he's got a cool nickname!!!!
 

DJK15

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Apr 17, 2008
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I would expect nothing less from a hawkeye fan....even if a player is better, you'd rather have your hawk.....

Angerer 113 career stops
Lee - 234 career stops.....

Ummm who would we rather have....
Tim Tebow or Ricki Stanzi......umm oh yeah thats easy, we want ricki bobbi!!!!!

Who would we rather have....
Dez Bryant or DJK.....oh yeah, we want DJK cuz he's got a cool nickname!!!!

After 2 years as a starter, I'm sure Angerer will have similar numbers too. And I would totally take Dez Bryant, "Dez" is just as cool as "DJK." :biggrin:
 

homerHAWKeye777

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May 27, 2009
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I'm definitely think that ISU's secondary has tremendous potential and I think that they'll be more than capable of matching up with Iowa's WRs. However, that's usually the case for Iowa's WRs. The thing is that when Iowa's well-balanced O is executing, opposing DBs have to worry a lot about run support ... and that threat can open up things for WRs.

Furthermore, Iowa really does have some pretty darn good talent at WR. I think that many ISU fans are overlooking Stross. Of course, that makes sense, because Stross still has to prove that he can remain healthy first! But, supposing Stross can remain healthy, then I think that Iowa's WR corps of Stross, McNutt, DJK, Sandeman, Chaney, and Davis will be able to keep opposing Ds honest. What's more ... Iowa has an absolutely tremendous TE duo in Moeaki and Reisner.

One thing that many ISU fans seem to be forgetting is that at a comparable part of the season, Iowa's OL still wasn't tremendously confident and Greene's conditioning still needed vast improvement. Thus, early in the season, Greene wasn't quite as much of a "difference maker" as some fans seem to be making him out to be. Furthermore, while Greene DID add a lot to the O though his strong, power running ... he also wasn't terribly versatile. In contrast, going into the 2009 Iowa vs ISU game, Iowa's RB situation is actually BETTER, the OL is more experienced and more confident, and the RBs are more versatile (Hampton and Wegher alone are reason for that).

All in all, I think that Iowa's O is very capable of moving the ball on ISU's D and, just as important, the O will be capable of chewing up A LOT of clock. I know that Herman's O is dynamic and "quick strike" in nature ... however, the ability of such an O is seriously limited if it doesn't get many opportunities to get on the field. While I'm really impressed with the great potential that ISU's O has, there still remains the valid question of how much of Herman's system will be installed by the 2nd game of the season? Furthermore, if he tries to install too much, too fast ... what impact might that have on an ISU O that is still pretty young?

I seriously don't think that there is a running O that Norm can't devise a viable counter-strategy to. Thus, that suggests to me that ISU will have to pass the ball to score. I know that is already a no-brainer ... however, it leads to the next point, which is ... does ISU's passing game really pose that much of a mismatch to Iowa's D? I'll definitely agree that accounting for the pace of Herman's O will be an intriguing challenge ... however, it is definitely a surmountable one. Well, if ISU nullifies Iowa's pass rush as we both suppose ... that then will rely on quick timing in the passing game. To that end, the fact that Iowa has a very experienced back 7 suggests that they will likely tackle better, earlier. Thus, in the event of completions, a quick passing game still won't necessarily produce huge yardage because Iowa's D will likely tackle the pass-catchers rather quickly. Also, the assessment that Bernstine is a "bust" is way off. Call it an excuse if you will, however, the young man has contended with injuries over each of the past 2 seasons ... and those injuries have limited him effectiveness. However, even despite that, I think that Bernstine has looked better than Fletcher had at comparable times in his career ... and Fletcher developed into a FINE CB. Of course, I do agree that Bernstine will be exploitable by ISU's O ... however, Bernstine will be playing within Iowa's scheme and, thus, he'll be keeping everything in front of him. ISU's O will not be able to move the ball with great success against Iowa by exploiting Bernstine alone. Thus, I'm truly curious what other mismatches ISU will exploit in order to move the ball with great success. For instance, Iowa's LBs are excellent in coverage ... so that alone will limit the effectiveness of ISU's RBs and TEs in the passing game.

Also, I wouldn't dismiss Iowa's ability and willingness to effectively use press coverage on ISU's WRs. That itself could throw off the timing of ISU's passing game and diffuse some of the seeming advantages there. I'm inclined to agree with DJK15, that many ISU fans here must not have been paying attention to Iowa's secondary. They're a much better unit than the folks here are giving them credit.
 

homerHAWKeye777

Active Member
May 27, 2009
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I would expect nothing less from a hawkeye fan....even if a player is better, you'd rather have your hawk.....

Angerer 113 career stops
Lee - 234 career stops.....

Stats alone don't tell the story. I won't be so bold as to say that Angerer is better than Lee. Considering that I've tracked Lee through his career because he was very nearly a Hawkeye ... I can definitely attest that he's an elite LB. However, I will say that Angerer is a LB of similar caliber.
 

KMAC_ATTACK

Well-Known Member
Feb 20, 2007
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I'm definitely think that ISU's secondary has tremendous potential and I think that they'll be more than capable of matching up with Iowa's WRs. However, that's usually the case for Iowa's WRs. The thing is that when Iowa's well-balanced O is executing, opposing DBs have to worry a lot about run support ... and that threat can open up things for WRs.

Furthermore, Iowa really does have some pretty darn good talent at WR. I think that many ISU fans are overlooking Stross. Of course, that makes sense, because Stross still has to prove that he can remain healthy first! But, supposing Stross can remain healthy, then I think that Iowa's WR corps of Stross, McNutt, DJK, Sandeman, Chaney, and Davis will be able to keep opposing Ds honest. What's more ... Iowa has an absolutely tremendous TE duo in Moeaki and Reisner.

One thing that many ISU fans seem to be forgetting is that at a comparable part of the season, Iowa's OL still wasn't tremendously confident and Greene's conditioning still needed vast improvement. Thus, early in the season, Greene wasn't quite as much of a "difference maker" as some fans seem to be making him out to be. Furthermore, while Greene DID add a lot to the O though his strong, power running ... he also wasn't terribly versatile. In contrast, going into the 2009 Iowa vs ISU game, Iowa's RB situation is actually BETTER, the OL is more experienced and more confident, and the RBs are more versatile (Hampton and Wegher alone are reason for that).

All in all, I think that Iowa's O is very capable of moving the ball on ISU's D and, just as important, the O will be capable of chewing up A LOT of clock. I know that Herman's O is dynamic and "quick strike" in nature ... however, the ability of such an O is seriously limited if it doesn't get many opportunities to get on the field. While I'm really impressed with the great potential that ISU's O has, there still remains the valid question of how much of Herman's system will be installed by the 2nd game of the season? Furthermore, if he tries to install too much, too fast ... what impact might that have on an ISU O that is still pretty young?

I seriously don't think that there is a running O that Norm can't devise a viable counter-strategy to. Thus, that suggests to me that ISU will have to pass the ball to score. I know that is already a no-brainer ... however, it leads to the next point, which is ... does ISU's passing game really pose that much of a mismatch to Iowa's D? I'll definitely agree that accounting for the pace of Herman's O will be an intriguing challenge ... however, it is definitely a surmountable one. Well, if ISU nullifies Iowa's pass rush as we both suppose ... that then will rely on quick timing in the passing game. To that end, the fact that Iowa has a very experienced back 7 suggests that they will likely tackle better, earlier. Thus, in the event of completions, a quick passing game still won't necessarily produce huge yardage because Iowa's D will likely tackle the pass-catchers rather quickly. Also, the assessment that Bernstine is a "bust" is way off. Call it an excuse if you will, however, the young man has contended with injuries over each of the past 2 seasons ... and those injuries have limited him effectiveness. However, even despite that, I think that Bernstine has looked better than Fletcher had at comparable times in his career ... and Fletcher developed into a FINE CB. Of course, I do agree that Bernstine will be exploitable by ISU's O ... however, Bernstine will be playing within Iowa's scheme and, thus, he'll be keeping everything in front of him. ISU's O will not be able to move the ball with great success against Iowa by exploiting Bernstine alone. Thus, I'm truly curious what other mismatches ISU will exploit in order to move the ball with great success. For instance, Iowa's LBs are excellent in coverage ... so that alone will limit the effectiveness of ISU's RBs and TEs in the passing game.

Also, I wouldn't dismiss Iowa's ability and willingness to effectively use press coverage on ISU's WRs. That itself could throw off the timing of ISU's passing game and diffuse some of the seeming advantages there. I'm inclined to agree with DJK15, that many ISU fans here must not have been paying attention to Iowa's secondary. They're a much better unit than the folks here are giving them credit.

Homerhawkeye77....

Although you make some great points, you also make some vague references....regarding your back 7...the mismatch was evident to all in attendance last year and will be even more glaring this year - remove the long grass and wet conditions. I was on the field that day, that grass was long and we all know the conditions were about as horrible as they could be......and we lost a close game.

The biggest mistake i see though is you saying you don't see how this offense will be able to move against iowas back 7.....umm that back seven lost one player to the nfl and isu dominated the passing game last year. Look at first downs, yards, drives whatever you want.....isu had 3 turnovers and had 6 trips into the red zone, missed 3 field goals and had 2 ints.

With your team of a year ago, your remarks about them not gelling and Greene not being conditioned makes little sense in that they had rolled to wins of 46-3, 42-0 and then managed a 17-5 win. Oh yeah and greene only had 109, 130 and then rolled for 120 against us. He was in fact in shape and ready to play but label it whatever you want....If you think your offense is better off with Jewell Hampton then Shonn Greene then you havent seen much college football over the past 20 years!!!! Shonn Greene beat people up!!! I actually liked watching him run after the ISU game, in the 4th quarter, people werent flying in on him late, they were piling on.....that wont happen with Mr. Hampton!!!!!

I can't wait to see your secondary under attack with your LB's holding their waist - gassed!!!!!! I guarantee that our current coaches will not scheme to your benefit!!!!
 

KMAC_ATTACK

Well-Known Member
Feb 20, 2007
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Stats alone don't tell the story. I won't be so bold as to say that Angerer is better than Lee. Considering that I've tracked Lee through his career because he was very nearly a Hawkeye ... I can definitely attest that he's an elite LB. However, I will say that Angerer is a LB of similar caliber.

Alls i said was NFL scouts don't necessarily agree.....

I said i would love a player of his ability so its no slight on angerer!!!!!

Had lee not gotten hurt he would have had another 125 tackles been all american and in the nfl......
 

dualthreat

Well-Known Member
Oct 8, 2008
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Before last season started, I (and about every other cyclone fan on this board) said that Iowa had no running back and no running game.

Then, suddenly Shonn Greene.

This year Im not going to say Jewell Hampton cannot come in and do a great job. After all, that Oline is gonna be great
 

Hawks2405

New Member
Jan 6, 2009
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I think the one thing that will hurt Iowa's defense the most in the beginning of the season is the suspension of Shaun Prater (DB). I think he would have been playing ahead of Bernstine and not sure if he is cut out to be our starting corner. I think you are also underestimating that we will have LB Jeff Tarpinian back after injury last year. He was actually ahead of Hunter going into last season. There is no doubt that we have one of the best LB groups in the nation with Angerer, Edds, Hunter and Tarpinian. Spievey is a lock-down corner and our safeties made some huge plays last year. This defense could be even better than last year.