This is why Prohm must go........

[Sigmapolis]

Good post but I’m critical of the former coach being “luckier.” I’m assuming that you are talking about five point or less/OT wins versus losses. The assumption being that the “bounces” even out over time. But that isn’t the case when you look at how Prohm fares in those games versus Huggins, Kruger, Self, Drew, etc. Great coaches effect winning in close contests. I think there is still work to be done by CSP in either getting better in late-game (last five minute) situations or making asst coaching hires that accomplish this.

Do you have any evidence for this?

I remember Scott Drew pantsing Hoiberg in Hilton one time...

http://barttorvik.com/box.php?muid=BaylorIowa+St.42060&year=2015



There was some "great" Hoiberg coaching on the right there.

We all know the legend of Toupee Bill.

 

[xboxfever]

Calling Ohio State a dumpster fire team last year is ridiculous. They made the NCAA tournament for gods sake. Also saying that ISU ran into “good” OSU is also ridiculous. ISU vs OSU looked like two teams who didn’t want to play again that season. Both teams looked awful in that game.

 

[NoCreativity]

I know making fun of the Big Ten (in all sports) and Iowa in particular is just part of the culture on here, but sometimes poking fun at them is unwarranted.

View attachment 69280

The Big Ten was the best conference in the country last year based on SRS.

The Big 12 had two teams under a 13 on SRS -- Oky State and WVU.

The Big Ten had five of them -- Minnesota, Penn State, NW, UIUC, and Buttgers.

So they did that with way more scrubs at the bottom of their conference than we did. The Cyclone in me hates to say it, but the Big Ten was not bad last year in basketball. Far from it -- it was one of if not the best conference in the sport.

According to your bible, Cincinnati was their best win of the entire season. The same team that lost to Iowa in the first round of the tourney. Their next best wins? Penn State and Nebraska, neither of which I remember having their names called on selection Sunday.

I appreciate stats but I dont need a bunch of advanced metrics to tell me if a team sucks or not.

 

[CYdTracked]

Interesting, I remember both players getting a decent amount of hype before they got here. No they would have been in the rotation, Prohm only likes to play 7-8 guys for some reason. They could have used a year or two to develop. I guess the era of players like Naz Long are over, if players aren't getting PT right away they transfer.

Both were 3 star recruits, Leech did have a decent offer list consisting of Kansas, LSU, Miami, and Mizzou amongst other programs too. Guessing if he couldn't crack the rotation on this roster he probably would have been redshirting at those schools too or looking to transfer out. Anderson never made sense, he did have some offers from schools like KState, FSU, Georgia, Ole Miss, UMass but not nearly the caliber of schools Leech did. He's going to USF now so don't see how he would have ever amounted to much at ISU. Will be interesting to see what kind of school Leech winds up at.

It's a strange place right now, would love to have guys like Naz and Matt Thomas who are solid 4 year guys too. It's tough to fault a coach for signing top talent that leaves for the pros early, we all want guys like that but would be nice if we could sprinkle in some 2-4 year type of guys too to prevent the massive roster turnover we have seen lately. This would probably be a different conversation right now if Wiggington and or THT had stayed another year but when you recruit guys like that you just never know if they are going to be 1 or 2 and done guys or guys that will be here 3 to 4 years. I doubt anyone thought Haliburton would be a 2 and done guy when he was recruited here.

 

[Sigmapolis]

Calling Ohio State a dumpster fire team last year is ridiculous. They made the NCAA tournament for gods sake. Also saying that ISU ran into “good” OSU is also ridiculous. ISU vs OSU looked like two teams who didn’t want to play again that season. Both teams looked awful in that game.

We were one of their two Quadrant I-A victories.

Ohio State wanted to play that slow, grinding, ugly sort of game.

Wesson and his 21 points and 12 rebounds looked like he wanted to be there.

We sure wanted to play a few days earlier in Kansas City. I watched Nick and Tyrese walk off the court crying after we lost. I am sure we wanted to play.

We just got into a junkyard brawl with a team that wanted to play like that.

 

[Sigmapolis]

According to your bible, Cincinnati was their best win of the entire season. The same team that lost to Iowa in the first round of the tourney. Their next best wins? Penn State and Nebraska, neither of which I remember having their names called on selection Sunday.

I appreciate stats but I dont need a bunch of advanced metrics to tell me if a team sucks or not.

We lost to a core that is the #2 team in the country right now a few months later.

I hear you that we should have won that game and it was at least a mild or moderate upset (we were like 75%ish favored on ESPN before that game).

But saying Ohio State "sucked" is hyperbole. Rutgers sucked, not Ohio State.

Saying that everything is just awful and terrible because we lost a classic #6/#11 upset against a high-major roster that has since proven to have a much higher ceiling than we appreciated then is completely unfair on your part, though.

How mad are you about the UAB game in comparison?

 

[MJ271]

That team wasnt that young. Shayok and Jacobson had multiple ACC and Big 10 season experience, NWB was a 5th year player who had mulitple Big 12 seasons under his belt, Lard, Talley, and Wigginton played heavy minutes in the Big 12 the year before so had plenty of experience.

THT and Tyrese were the only ones last year that didnt have significant playing time under their belts in the 3 toughest conferences in college basketball.

Maybe young wasn't the right way to describe it, but it certainly wasn't a team that had played a lot of minutes together. And I think the most talented players on the roster were clearly Shayok, Wigginton, Halliburton, Horton-Tucker and Lard, four of whom were underclassmen who hadn't played in an NCAA tournament. Kenpom also had last season's Iowa State team ranked 225th for experience and 291st for continuity.

Back to Ohio State, just for one final point on what @Sigmapolis and I are saying. We aren't trying to say that Ohio State was a great team last season. But, firstly, even the teams that are the last ones on the right side of the bubble in the NCAA tournament aren't "bad" teams. There's a reason why teams that are in the play-in games have made some runs in the NCAA tournament. And second, it's reasonable to say that the players on one of the best teams in the country may have occasionally played up to their potential in the prior season at least some of the time, even if it didn't happen most of the time.

 

[NoCreativity]

We lost to a core that is the #2 team in the country right now a few months later.

I hear you that we should have won that game and it was at least a mild or moderate upset (we were like 75%ish favored on ESPN before that game).

But saying Ohio State "sucked" is hyperbole. Rutgers sucked, not Ohio State.

Saying that everything is just awful and terrible because we lost a classic #6/#11 upset against a high-major roster that has since proven to have a much higher ceiling than we appreciated then is completely unfair on your part, though.

How mad are you about the UAB game in comparison?

I was just as upset about the UAB game, so much so that I didnt even the rest of the first round games that day.

I appreciate your analysis and it does paint part of a picture, but it doenst tell the whole story. At the end of the day you are what your record indicates and its all about who you beat on the schedule.

 

[Cloneon]

Is it me? Or is it that 'everyone' becomes an expert at basketball only after losses? It seems this knitting club only convenes after losses. I've spent enough time here. Off I go to something productive.

 

[jcisuclones]

I’ll give Steve one thing.. he’s ran a clean program for 4 seasons that he’s been here..

 

[ClonesFTW]

Let's see what coaches around the country did last year with teams who had 2 players get drafted into the NBA:

Duke: 32 wins, 14-4
FSU: 29 wins, 13-5
Zaga: 33 wins, 16-0
Kentucky: 30 wins, 15-3
Michigan: 30 wins, 15-5
North Carolina: 29 wins, 16-2
Tennesee: 31 wins, 15-3
Virginia: 35 wins, 16-2
Washington: 27 wins, 15-3


Iowa state: 23 wins, 9-9

 

[Sigmapolis]

Let's see what coaches around the country did last year with teams who had 2 players get drafted into the NBA:

Duke: 32 wins, 14-4
FSU: 29 wins, 13-5
Zaga: 33 wins, 16-0
Kentucky: 30 wins, 15-3
Michigan: 30 wins, 15-5
North Carolina: 29 wins, 16-2
Tennesee: 31 wins, 15-3
Virginia: 35 wins, 16-2
Washington: 27 wins, 15-3


Iowa state: 23 wins, 9-9

We had two guys taken 46th and 54th.

Where were the rest of those guys...?

 

[IASTATE07]

We had two guys taken 46th and 54th.

Where were the rest of those guys...?

Context is only needed when it's against Prohm.

 

[ClonesFTW]

We had two guys taken 46th and 54th.

Where were the rest of those guys...?

We also had 2 additional G Leaguers and a potential 2020 lottery pick.

 

[FinalFourCy]

We had two guys taken 46th and 54th.

Where were the rest of those guys...?

Well, that also means some here overstate the early personnel losses from a year ago.

Replacing guys is imperative to consistent success in college basketball. It’s never been easier for the ISU MBB coach to do it.

 

[ClonesFTW]

Context is only needed when it's against Prohm.

What team(s) performed worse than Iowa State with any amount of NBA and G league players? Honest question.

 

[jsb]

I was just as upset about the UAB game, so much so that I didnt even the rest of the first round games that day.

I appreciate your analysis and it does paint part of a picture, but it doenst tell the whole story. At the end of the day you are what your record indicates and its all about who you beat on the schedule.

And last year Iowa State was a team that EARNED a 6 seed. You are saying that a 6 seed isn’t good. You are a moron that should find a new team. Memphis is nice this time of year.

 

[TheHonestCycloneFan]

Who gives a crap who 'starts'? Who plays the most minutes is what matters.

I'm not saying you're wrong about the big deal of coming off the bench when you're on of the leaders in minutes played in the conference. But that also isn't a reality most kids can acknowledge when they feel it is taking away from their dreams to make it to the NBA.

 

[IASTATE07]

What team(s) performed worse than Iowa State with any amount of NBA and G league players? Honest question.

That doesn't appear to be your original question.

 

[Sigmapolis]

What team(s) performed worse than Iowa State with any amount of NBA and G league players? Honest question.

Garrett -- had a cup of tea in the NBA, long-term European player
Staiger -- long-term player in Europe, one of the best shooters in school history
Gilstrap -- #1 JUCO recruit in the country
Brackins -- 21st overall pick, short NBA career and now long overseas career
Hamilton -- 45th overall pick (higher than THT!), on-off NBA career, overseas now
---
Colvin -- 4* recruit, though never lived up to it
Christopherson -- short overseas career, one of the best shooters in school history
Dendy -- former 4* recruit, eventually won CPOTY for a mid-major conference
JVB -- one of the best shooters in school history, long overseas career

I could make a case that team had more talent than the one last year.

The result... 15-17 overall, 4-12 in the Big 12, zero wins in KC, no postseason.

If you think last year was squandering talent compared to that list, then I've seen things you couldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.