*** Official Idaho State vs IOWA STATE Game(Day) Thread ***

ZRF

Well-Known Member
Jan 3, 2015
4,392
2,119
113
How do you know they're bad shots?

What specifically is coach speak about what TJ said? How do you know it's inaccurate?

- 16:37 - missed transition 3 attempt. Not the worst shot, but given the opponent I'd rather see him take it to the hole.

- 9:40 missed 3. Good shot, just missed it.

-6:05 missed floater on a good move to the lane late in the shot clock.

- 1:17 missed three. Should have shot it when he received the pass. Triple clutched (once he hesitated he should have moved the ball)

- 0:04 made driving layup in transition. So so decision...looked like Tamin was exploding past his guy for an easy dish. He definitely got away with a travel and took an angle that gave him a tough shot. Nice finish on the contact though.

- 12:04 2nd half made 3. Shot a step back 3 from 5 feet beyond the arc. Bad shot.

- 8:37 made 2. Early in the shot clock, long 2 but in rhythm. Not the best shot selection but it was in rhythm.

- 8:07 made driving 2 in transition. Did exactly what he was supposed to do and what he should have done on the earlier 3 point attempt in the first half. Great finish.

- 7:24 missed off-balance floater. Don't mind the drive but forced a floater with poor body position.

- 5:51 missed 3 pointer 7 feet behind the arc. Brutal shot selection.

- 2:21 made 3 pointer. Two feet behind the line off a great dish by Watson. Was in range, in rhythm, and decisive. This and the 8:07 transition two were the bucket highlights of the game.

On two pointers (3/5) -

2 really good decisions and attempts - 1/2
3 so-so decisions/attemps - 2/3. None of these were terrible (either selection or decision that led to it), but once he drove on the floater and got in that position he shouldn't have shot it. The make at the end of the first was a missed travel call.

On threes (2/6) -

2 really good decisions and attempts - 1/2
2 so-so decisions/attempts - 0/2 . I'd rather see an 80% FT shooting guard take it to the hole in transition than shoot a pull up three (but he was in rhythm). The triple clutch should have been shot off the pass. Once he hesitated he needs to get rid of the ball.
2 poor decisions - 1/2. First made 3 in the 2nd half wasn't a good decision but he made it. Worst shot of the game was the last missed 3.

His decision making was better this game, and he was clearly valuable on the floor, but I don't see anything from the eye test or his career profile that says Curtis Jones should have the green light on ANY (key word here) shot. He's a 36 % career (before ISU) 3 point shooter (which is fine) and roughly a 46-50% 2 point shooter...at BUFFALO. He played against lesser competition and with lesser teammates. On this team we have better options AND better teammates that (like in transition) can get him (and the team) better scoring opportunities. There's simply no reason for anyone on this team to consistently put up bad shots.

Right now the team (as a whole) is shooting 51% from the floor and 37% from 3. Those are good numbers. If you take it one step further than team, sans Jones' attempts, is shooting 55% overall and 47% from 3. Since you constantly challenge me, without really saying anything of substance yourself, let that sink in for a second. We have the worst statistical 3 point shooter (at 17.6%) leading the TEAM in 3 point attempts, and the 2nd worst shooter on the team playing significant minutes (31% to Biliew's 30 %) taking the most shots on the team. Please explain why it's a great idea for Jones to be taking this many shots, many of which (thus far) have been questionable?

I don't care what Otz says, having C Jones taking bad shots, and a lot of shots, isn't smart basketball. It's taking shots away from better and infinitely more efficient players. If Jones needs to increase anything offensively it's drives to the lane. Thus far the eye test AND his previous stats (low TO rates and good FT percentage) say he should be driving the lane and getting to the line rather than jacking up ill-advised 3's. Help get the opponent in foul trouble, get to the line, and get some easy points. For leading the team in shots he only has FIVE FT attempts and only has 2 TOs. I've never seen a combination of stats that scream "go to the hole" more than that.

If Otz can't recognize this he's flat out ******* up. And no, that doesn't mean I can coach basketball for the idiots who are bound to throw that out there.
 

cycloneG

Well-Known Member
Mar 7, 2007
15,981
16,618
113
Off the grid
- 16:37 - missed transition 3 attempt. Not the worst shot, but given the opponent I'd rather see him take it to the hole.

- 9:40 missed 3. Good shot, just missed it.

-6:05 missed floater on a good move to the lane late in the shot clock.

- 1:17 missed three. Should have shot it when he received the pass. Triple clutched (once he hesitated he should have moved the ball)

- 0:04 made driving layup in transition. So so decision...looked like Tamin was exploding past his guy for an easy dish. He definitely got away with a travel and took an angle that gave him a tough shot. Nice finish on the contact though.

- 12:04 2nd half made 3. Shot a step back 3 from 5 feet beyond the arc. Bad shot.

- 8:37 made 2. Early in the shot clock, long 2 but in rhythm. Not the best shot selection but it was in rhythm.

- 8:07 made driving 2 in transition. Did exactly what he was supposed to do and what he should have done on the earlier 3 point attempt in the first half. Great finish.

- 7:24 missed off-balance floater. Don't mind the drive but forced a floater with poor body position.

- 5:51 missed 3 pointer 7 feet behind the arc. Brutal shot selection.

- 2:21 made 3 pointer. Two feet behind the line off a great dish by Watson. Was in range, in rhythm, and decisive. This and the 8:07 transition two were the bucket highlights of the game.

On two pointers (3/5) -

2 really good decisions and attempts - 1/2
3 so-so decisions/attemps - 2/3. None of these were terrible (either selection or decision that led to it), but once he drove on the floater and got in that position he shouldn't have shot it. The make at the end of the first was a missed travel call.

On threes (2/6) -

2 really good decisions and attempts - 1/2
2 so-so decisions/attempts - 0/2 . I'd rather see an 80% FT shooting guard take it to the hole in transition than shoot a pull up three (but he was in rhythm). The triple clutch should have been shot off the pass. Once he hesitated he needs to get rid of the ball.
2 poor decisions - 1/2. First made 3 in the 2nd half wasn't a good decision but he made it. Worst shot of the game was the last missed 3.

His decision making was better this game, and he was clearly valuable on the floor, but I don't see anything from the eye test or his career profile that says Curtis Jones should have the green light on ANY (key word here) shot. He's a 36 % career (before ISU) 3 point shooter (which is fine) and roughly a 46-50% 2 point shooter...at BUFFALO. He played against lesser competition and with lesser teammates. On this team we have better options AND better teammates that (like in transition) can get him (and the team) better scoring opportunities. There's simply no reason for anyone on this team to consistently put up bad shots.

Right now the team (as a whole) is shooting 51% from the floor and 37% from 3. Those are good numbers. If you take it one step further than team, sans Jones' attempts, is shooting 55% overall and 47% from 3. Since you constantly challenge me, without really saying anything of substance yourself, let that sink in for a second. We have the worst statistical 3 point shooter (at 17.6%) leading the TEAM in 3 point attempts, and the 2nd worst shooter on the team playing significant minutes (31% to Biliew's 30 %) taking the most shots on the team. Please explain why it's a great idea for Jones to be taking this many shots, many of which (thus far) have been questionable?

I don't care what Otz says, having C Jones taking bad shots, and a lot of shots, isn't smart basketball. It's taking shots away from better and infinitely more efficient players. If Jones needs to increase anything offensively it's drives to the lane. Thus far the eye test AND his previous stats (low TO rates and good FT percentage) say he should be driving the lane and getting to the line rather than jacking up ill-advised 3's. Help get the opponent in foul trouble, get to the line, and get some easy points. For leading the team in shots he only has FIVE FT attempts and only has 2 TOs. I've never seen a combination of stats that scream "go to the hole" more than that.

If Otz can't recognize this he's flat out ******* up. And no, that doesn't mean I can coach basketball for the idiots who are bound to throw that out there.
ZdVa.gif
 

Mr Janny

Welcome to the Office of Secret Intelligence
Staff member
Bookie
SuperFanatic
Mar 27, 2006
42,742
33,760
113
- 16:37 - missed transition 3 attempt. Not the worst shot, but given the opponent I'd rather see him take it to the hole.

- 9:40 missed 3. Good shot, just missed it.

-6:05 missed floater on a good move to the lane late in the shot clock.

- 1:17 missed three. Should have shot it when he received the pass. Triple clutched (once he hesitated he should have moved the ball)

- 0:04 made driving layup in transition. So so decision...looked like Tamin was exploding past his guy for an easy dish. He definitely got away with a travel and took an angle that gave him a tough shot. Nice finish on the contact though.

- 12:04 2nd half made 3. Shot a step back 3 from 5 feet beyond the arc. Bad shot.

- 8:37 made 2. Early in the shot clock, long 2 but in rhythm. Not the best shot selection but it was in rhythm.

- 8:07 made driving 2 in transition. Did exactly what he was supposed to do and what he should have done on the earlier 3 point attempt in the first half. Great finish.

- 7:24 missed off-balance floater. Don't mind the drive but forced a floater with poor body position.

- 5:51 missed 3 pointer 7 feet behind the arc. Brutal shot selection.

- 2:21 made 3 pointer. Two feet behind the line off a great dish by Watson. Was in range, in rhythm, and decisive. This and the 8:07 transition two were the bucket highlights of the game.

On two pointers (3/5) -

2 really good decisions and attempts - 1/2
3 so-so decisions/attemps - 2/3. None of these were terrible (either selection or decision that led to it), but once he drove on the floater and got in that position he shouldn't have shot it. The make at the end of the first was a missed travel call.

On threes (2/6) -

2 really good decisions and attempts - 1/2
2 so-so decisions/attempts - 0/2 . I'd rather see an 80% FT shooting guard take it to the hole in transition than shoot a pull up three (but he was in rhythm). The triple clutch should have been shot off the pass. Once he hesitated he needs to get rid of the ball.
2 poor decisions - 1/2. First made 3 in the 2nd half wasn't a good decision but he made it. Worst shot of the game was the last missed 3.

His decision making was better this game, and he was clearly valuable on the floor, but I don't see anything from the eye test or his career profile that says Curtis Jones should have the green light on ANY (key word here) shot. He's a 36 % career (before ISU) 3 point shooter (which is fine) and roughly a 46-50% 2 point shooter...at BUFFALO. He played against lesser competition and with lesser teammates. On this team we have better options AND better teammates that (like in transition) can get him (and the team) better scoring opportunities. There's simply no reason for anyone on this team to consistently put up bad shots.

Right now the team (as a whole) is shooting 51% from the floor and 37% from 3. Those are good numbers. If you take it one step further than team, sans Jones' attempts, is shooting 55% overall and 47% from 3. Since you constantly challenge me, without really saying anything of substance yourself, let that sink in for a second. We have the worst statistical 3 point shooter (at 17.6%) leading the TEAM in 3 point attempts, and the 2nd worst shooter on the team playing significant minutes (31% to Biliew's 30 %) taking the most shots on the team. Please explain why it's a great idea for Jones to be taking this many shots, many of which (thus far) have been questionable?

I don't care what Otz says, having C Jones taking bad shots, and a lot of shots, isn't smart basketball. It's taking shots away from better and infinitely more efficient players. If Jones needs to increase anything offensively it's drives to the lane. Thus far the eye test AND his previous stats (low TO rates and good FT percentage) say he should be driving the lane and getting to the line rather than jacking up ill-advised 3's. Help get the opponent in foul trouble, get to the line, and get some easy points. For leading the team in shots he only has FIVE FT attempts and only has 2 TOs. I've never seen a combination of stats that scream "go to the hole" more than that.

If Otz can't recognize this he's flat out ******* up. And no, that doesn't mean I can coach basketball for the idiots who are bound to throw that out there.
1699899772590.jpeg
 

madguy30

Well-Known Member
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Nov 15, 2011
57,330
55,232
113
- 16:37 - missed transition 3 attempt. Not the worst shot, but given the opponent I'd rather see him take it to the hole.

- 9:40 missed 3. Good shot, just missed it.

-6:05 missed floater on a good move to the lane late in the shot clock.

- 1:17 missed three. Should have shot it when he received the pass. Triple clutched (once he hesitated he should have moved the ball)

- 0:04 made driving layup in transition. So so decision...looked like Tamin was exploding past his guy for an easy dish. He definitely got away with a travel and took an angle that gave him a tough shot. Nice finish on the contact though.

- 12:04 2nd half made 3. Shot a step back 3 from 5 feet beyond the arc. Bad shot.

- 8:37 made 2. Early in the shot clock, long 2 but in rhythm. Not the best shot selection but it was in rhythm.

- 8:07 made driving 2 in transition. Did exactly what he was supposed to do and what he should have done on the earlier 3 point attempt in the first half. Great finish.

- 7:24 missed off-balance floater. Don't mind the drive but forced a floater with poor body position.

- 5:51 missed 3 pointer 7 feet behind the arc. Brutal shot selection.

- 2:21 made 3 pointer. Two feet behind the line off a great dish by Watson. Was in range, in rhythm, and decisive. This and the 8:07 transition two were the bucket highlights of the game.

On two pointers (3/5) -

2 really good decisions and attempts - 1/2
3 so-so decisions/attemps - 2/3. None of these were terrible (either selection or decision that led to it), but once he drove on the floater and got in that position he shouldn't have shot it. The make at the end of the first was a missed travel call.

On threes (2/6) -

2 really good decisions and attempts - 1/2
2 so-so decisions/attempts - 0/2 . I'd rather see an 80% FT shooting guard take it to the hole in transition than shoot a pull up three (but he was in rhythm). The triple clutch should have been shot off the pass. Once he hesitated he needs to get rid of the ball.
2 poor decisions - 1/2. First made 3 in the 2nd half wasn't a good decision but he made it. Worst shot of the game was the last missed 3.

His decision making was better this game, and he was clearly valuable on the floor, but I don't see anything from the eye test or his career profile that says Curtis Jones should have the green light on ANY (key word here) shot. He's a 36 % career (before ISU) 3 point shooter (which is fine) and roughly a 46-50% 2 point shooter...at BUFFALO. He played against lesser competition and with lesser teammates. On this team we have better options AND better teammates that (like in transition) can get him (and the team) better scoring opportunities. There's simply no reason for anyone on this team to consistently put up bad shots.

Right now the team (as a whole) is shooting 51% from the floor and 37% from 3. Those are good numbers. If you take it one step further than team, sans Jones' attempts, is shooting 55% overall and 47% from 3. Since you constantly challenge me, without really saying anything of substance yourself, let that sink in for a second. We have the worst statistical 3 point shooter (at 17.6%) leading the TEAM in 3 point attempts, and the 2nd worst shooter on the team playing significant minutes (31% to Biliew's 30 %) taking the most shots on the team. Please explain why it's a great idea for Jones to be taking this many shots, many of which (thus far) have been questionable?

I don't care what Otz says, having C Jones taking bad shots, and a lot of shots, isn't smart basketball. It's taking shots away from better and infinitely more efficient players. If Jones needs to increase anything offensively it's drives to the lane. Thus far the eye test AND his previous stats (low TO rates and good FT percentage) say he should be driving the lane and getting to the line rather than jacking up ill-advised 3's. Help get the opponent in foul trouble, get to the line, and get some easy points. For leading the team in shots he only has FIVE FT attempts and only has 2 TOs. I've never seen a combination of stats that scream "go to the hole" more than that.

If Otz can't recognize this he's flat out ******* up. And no, that doesn't mean I can coach basketball for the idiots who are bound to throw that out there.

If you're THIS obsessed about some missed shots on a Sunday in November it's gonn be a long season for you.
 

Nader_uggghhh

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2017
834
1,046
93
I will agree with one thing - Milan should be leading the team in shots. He needs to shoot more
Yep, I don't think that's too controversial. This is all stuff that should sort itself out naturally. Gilbert and Lipsey aren't jump shooters so Curtis being an efficient volume shooter would be a huge boost.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dgilbertson

madguy30

Well-Known Member
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Nov 15, 2011
57,330
55,232
113
LMAO. So you challenge me to provide some sort of basis for my opinion, which I did, and that's the best retort you have? Give me a ******* break.

Yes. You spent a lot of time on obsessing over some missed shots on a Sunday in November. It's weird.

Prediction: you will obsessively struggle with C. Jones all season and rip on him every chance you get.

Your entire 'schtick' is dripped in 'give me a *****ing break'.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Dgilbertson

ZRF

Well-Known Member
Jan 3, 2015
4,392
2,119
113
Just because I felt like it and apparently have too much time on my hands to spend on message board arguments, here's documentation of Curtis Jones's three-point attempts yesterday:

Attempt #1: Pull-up shot in transition. He probably could have held on to see if something developed with Biliew and Jones coming down the court, but he also didn't have any defender even close to him (both of Idaho State's defenders were closer to Biliew and Robert Jones than they were to Curtis). Shot was missed and followed with an easy Robert Jones putback.
Attempt #2: Catch and shoot after an offensive rebound coming from a Momcilovic miss. Jones stepped into it, and the defender had a late closeout. A shot that no one should have any issues with. Shot was missed with an Idaho State rebound.
Attempt #3: Jones got the ball on a kick out from Momcilovic. He did make a mistake here, but the mistake was that he hesitated and didn't shoot it right away. Still, the defender left quite a bit of room, and the shot wasn't awful. He missed the shot and the rebound went out of bounds.
Attempt #4: Curtis Jones has the ball at the top of the key with one of Idaho State's bigs guarding him, Robert Jones comes up to set the screen, both defenders go with Robert Jones when he starts to roll, Curtis Jones has a quite a bit of space and makes the shot from a couple of feet behind the three-point line.
Attempt #5: Jones brought the ball up, passed it to Biliew on the perimeter, got it back, and shot it from right next to the Pioneer logo. A deep shot, but it was in rhythm and the defender was back a ways. I believe his make in the previous game was from a similar distance. If he's comfortable shooting from there (which I think he is), it's not a horrible shot.
Attempt #6: Gilbert drive and drop-off to Watson, who kicked it out to a wide-open Curtis Jones. Beautiful play, Jones finishes it with a made shot.

So to sum up, he was only being actively guarded on 1/6 shots. On a couple, he was pretty deep, but again, I assume he can make those if he's taking them (plus we've already seen him make them from a few feet behind the line). I would also say that there was not a single shot attempt where he had another option that would have immediately led to a higher-percentage shot.


This isn't the argument and isn't the right way to be looking at this particular subject, at all.

I'm sure he can make those shots...some of the time. As almost any college basketball player can with the shots they take. The real questions are: are they smart shots and is he the best guy to be taking them? His career resume and current results (both his and the team) screams that's not the case. Milan is shooting 58% from the floor and 62% from 3. Gilbert is shooting 57% from the floor, Lipsey 50% King 64%, and BRE 78% (great job BRE for playing within yourself and making excellent decisions with the ball). Those first 4 guys are the ones we want leading the team NOT a player whose shown to be, at best, a decent shooter at a mid-major team.

That's the point in all of this. Don't have a decent player taking suspect shots when you have better players on the team that should be shooting the ball. Moreover, Curtis should be driving the lane and getting to the line more, as he doesn't turn the ball over and is a good FT shooter. And if and when he is going to shoot he should be making good decisions. We have too many options to be wasting shots (this year).

It doesn't matter now but if it continues, against our better opponents, it will have negative impact.
 

isufbcurt

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2006
27,527
44,485
113
46
Newton
This isn't the argument and isn't the right way to be looking at this particular subject, at all.

I'm sure he can make those shots...some of the time. As almost any college basketball player can with the shots they take. The real questions are: are they smart shots and is he the best guy to be taking them? His career resume and current results (both his and the team) screams that's not the case. Milan is shooting 58% from the floor and 62% from 3. Gilbert is shooting 57% from the floor, Lipsey 50% King 64%, and BRE 78% (great job BRE for playing within yourself and making excellent decisions with the ball). Those first 4 guys are the ones we want leading the team NOT a player whose shown to be, at best, a decent shooter at a mid-major team.

That's the point in all of this. Don't have a decent player taking suspect shots when you have better players on the team that should be shooting the ball. Moreover, Curtis should be driving the lane and getting to the line more, as he doesn't turn the ball over and is a good FT shooter. And if and when he is going to shoot he should be making good decisions. We have too many options to be wasting shots (this year).

It doesn't matter now but if it continues, against our better opponents, it will have negative impact.

Well TJ, the ACTUAL Coach feels differently.
 

ZRF

Well-Known Member
Jan 3, 2015
4,392
2,119
113
Yes. You spent a lot of time on obsessing over some missed shots on a Sunday in November. It's weird.

Prediction: you will obsessively struggle with C. Jones all season and rip on him every chance you get.

Your entire 'schtick' is dripped in 'give me a *****ing break'.

What's even weirder is are people obsessing over small comments, which are based on observations and stats, challenging them, then changing the subject and cowering when the evidence is provided.

Why disagree and make a big deal of it if this is what you are going to do. Couldn't care less if you disagree, just provide something other than anecdotal whiny BS if you are going to do so.

Talk about a tiresome "schtick"
 

Blackhawk6515

Well-Known Member
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Jul 21, 2008
589
605
93
64
We are averaging 15+ steals a game so far. Not forcing overall turnovers. STEALS. That is crazy despite the level of competition.

We have to lead the country in steals by a large margin. We are so long and quick.
 

madguy30

Well-Known Member
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Nov 15, 2011
57,330
55,232
113
What's even weirder is are people obsessing over small comments, which are based on observations and stats, challenging them, then changing the subject and cowering when the evidence is provided.

Why disagree and make a big deal of it if this is what you are going to do. Couldn't care less if you disagree, just provide something other than anecdotal whiny BS if you are going to do so.

Talk about a tiresome "schtick"

Small comments?

Whiny BS?