Mantanona match - Anybody see this!!!

[theshadow]

Trent Weatherman got choked out by an Oklahoma guy (pattern?) at Hilton in 2011, and was "pinned."

Scary conclusion to Friday's loss to Oklahoma

The collective breath of those in attendance at Hilton Coliseum on Friday was held as Trent Weatherman lay unconscious on the mat after getting pinned in his match against Oklahoma's

www.iowastatedaily.com

 

[alabamacyclone]

Yup, that Weatherman clip is the one that I was referring to. Scary moment. He was still on his feet and you could see that he was out. I was more affected by that than I was with the Randy Lewis elbow. Joe Theisman's leg is on another level.

 

[enisthemenace]

I was at the ISU/OU meet several years ago when Degan essentially got choked out. Can’t remember who he was wrestling or that exact hold but it was bad. The ref finally stopped it Jerrod left the mat dazed but came back and finished. Again not sure if it was the same move done by OU guy? Degan lost the match.
Anyone remember match?

Davion Jeffries, wasn’t it?

 

[OKClones]

Davion Jeffries, wasn’t it?

Yes! Thank you

 

[Matrat]

If his hands are locked, then yes. I can’t see that.

Is it a judgement call? Wasn’t it illegal the moment Mantanona didn’t have an arm?

I can’t see your picture, but have seen the angle which clearly shows left arm also under the neck, which would indicate a guillotine choke.
It also appears that his father is a BJJ instructor.

 

[Drew0311]

That's a guillotine choke at that point.

Looks like an unlocked arm triangle more than a guillotine to be honest. I’m no expert in wrestling but that is a BJJ choke.

 

[singsing]

It's a head lock without an arm..should be illegal as hell. Had a friend win the state championship with that move back in 85. He'd pull that crap in practice and had to warn him if he did it again I was going to start swinging.

 

[BCClone]

View attachment 95335

That’s illegal from this angle. Can’t see the left arm but sure looks to be locked

 

[CyGold]

I was at the ISU/OU meet several years ago when Degan essentially got choked out. Can’t remember who he was wrestling or that exact hold but it was bad. The ref finally stopped it Jerrod left the mat dazed but came back and finished. Again not sure if it was the same move done by OU guy? Degan lost the match.
Anyone remember match?

I remember that match. IIRC The ref didn't stop it but fortunately time ran out. Degen was able to get himself revived between periods and a brief injury time. I think it might have been the end of the first period and he finished the match. I'm probably in the minority here but unless the guys hands are locked it's a tough call for the ref. Wrestlers are in that position all the time and usually wrestle out of it. I remember a match earlier this year with Iowas HWT where it ended in a similar fashion. Nobody seamed outraged then. Many complemented Cassiopi for a dominating performance.

 

[DantheFan]

Not sure if this is the Degen/Jeffries match that's being referred to, but this one has some legit choking.

The video has a few matches, so the action that leads to the choke starts around the 15:00 mark.

 

[enisthemenace]

Not sure if this is the Degen/Jeffries match that's being referred to, but this one has some legit choking.

The video has a few matches, so the action that leads to the choke starts around the 15:00 mark.

That’s the one.

 

[CyGold]

I seam to think of another match Degen's freshman year but could be mistaken. This is a good example of it being a hard call for the refs. It's clear that Degen's arm and head is in the hold making it perfectly legal. Degen did a great job of fighting it off. It's a tough sport for sure. It is funny listening to Spates, he's such a homer.

 

[cyatheart]

Dumb question, but why isn’t this just a disqualification? Seems like chocking people out isn’t really in the spirit of the sport.

 

[LincolnSwinger]

Dumb question, but why isn’t this just a disqualification? Seems like chocking people out isn’t really in the spirit of the sport.

I couldn’t figure out how to phrase it, but you nailed what I was thinking as a very uninformed fan.

 

[CyGold]

Dumb question, but why isn’t this just a disqualification? Seems like chocking people out isn’t really in the spirit of the sport.

I don't think it's a dumb question. The sport has a lot of illegal moves that result in stopping the match and awarding one penalty point going to the other guy. This situation is just one of those weird scenarios that unintentionally resulted in a choking situation... The hold shown in Degen's video is perfectly legal, used a lot in modern wrestling matches, and very rarely results in choking. You could argue that IF Degen submits to the hold he would get pinned but not choked out. Most of wrestling holds and techniques are designed to result in a pin. Any contact sport has a lot of holds, moves and situations that could turn into a injury but you can't prohibit them all.

 

[cyatheart]

I don't think it's a dumb question. The sport has a lot of illegal moves that result in stopping the match and awarding one penalty point going to the other guy. This situation is just one of those weird scenarios that unintentionally resulted in a choking situation... The hold shown in Degen's video is perfectly legal, used a lot in modern wrestling matches, and very rarely results in choking. You could argue that IF Degen submits to the hold he would get pinned but not choked out. Most of wrestling holds and techniques are designed to result in a pin. Any contact sport has a lot of holds, moves and situations that could turn into a injury but you can't prohibit them all.

thanks for the response. For you guys that are closer to this...

is this common from this wrestler or from ou? Are they thought of as dirty?
Is it possible this was an accident? (Seems like no judging from the announcer reaction and the reaction from the wrestler, he just walks away after he goes limp)

I hate to see this...it's stuff like this and the culture in Iowa city over the last day 40 years or so that has really damaged wrestling for me. I enjoyed wrestling as a younger man but the d baggery in Iowa city really turned me off the sport as it seemed to get more common place and accepted by so many in the sport as a necessary evil for greatness. It's sad really.

 

[buf87]

thanks for the response. For you guys that are closer to this...

is this common from this wrestler or from ou? Are they thought of as dirty?
Is it possible this was an accident? (Seems like no judging from the announcer reaction and the reaction from the wrestler, he just walks away after he goes limp)

I hate to see this...it's stuff like this and the culture in Iowa city over the last day 40 years or so that has really damaged wrestling for me. I enjoyed wrestling as a younger man but the d baggery in Iowa city really turned me off the sport as it seemed to get more common place and accepted by so many in the sport as a necessary evil for greatness. It's sad really.

I think of Mantanona as dirty. He need to pin you in the 1st 4 minutes or he gases.
How many takedowns did Coleman get on Mantanona in the 3rd a couple years ago? It was 12-0 Mantanona after 1 and Marcus beat him 17-15. Took gas breaks throughout the last part of the match.

 

[cyatheart]

I think of Mantanona as dirty. He need to pin you in the 1st 4 minutes or he gases.
How many takedowns did Coleman get on Mantanona in the 3rd a couple years ago? It was 12-0 Mantanona after 1 and Marcus beat him 17-15. Took gas breaks throughout the last part of the match.

i don't know guys, this is really sickening....I watched the warning, a clip that is longer than this that showed more before and after and it looks bad to me....mantanona was way down in this match as well, only way he had a chance....if this were an Iowa state wrestler I would hope there would be some answers or something done about this...ou and the ncaa (and the sport in general) are ok with this? I just don't see how this gets a pass, dude could really hurt somebody like that

 

[wxman1]

Honestly the school/conference/NCAA silence on this kind of thing is fairly off putting to me as a newer fan. Same goes for Brands bros antics especially at the end of our match this year. If they are not going to instill and uphold a level of sportsmanship and professionalism then it needs to be done away with.

 

[Clone83]

I don’t want to diminish the things discussed here, and their seriousness.

With the UNI meet coming up especially, though, I’ve linked below a really good article on long-time, highly successful Cornell University Coach Rob Koll, and his father Bill Koll. Bill Koll was from Fort Dodge, wrestled and coached at UNI, and then coached at Penn State.

He was known for his body slamming, which was legal at the time, but made illegal under the rules after his career.

It is actually a very positive article, as that is just part of it. Maybe I should have put it elsewhere, but it seems out of place in the meet thread, and I don’t believe it needs its own thread.

InterMat Rewind: Bill & Rob Koll

intermatwrestle.com

After fighting on D-Day …

Bill Koll was arguably THE superstar of college wrestling in the 1940s. A three-time NCAA champ for Iowa State Teachers College (now the University of Northern Iowa), Koll never lost a match in college. In his entire college career, Bill was taken down only once -- during the 1946 NCAA finals by Oklahoma State's Edgar Welch. …

Bill's son Rob picks up the story: "He was one of the first at the Normandy beach invasion on D-Day … "

"I think from this experience, he was so able to focus on anything, and develop what he called a 'controlled anger' which he used on his opponents," says the younger Koll. "He taught me to focus that way with escaping from the down position. Emotional control -- quick, explosive, 'fight or flight.' A lot of that came from his Army training. It made him more brutal on the mat." …

Slam time

Bill Koll was known for his tough wrestling style. But he was revered -- and feared -- for his body-slamming technique that brought opponents crashing to the mat for the pin. …

Bob Siddens described … "Slamming was allowed in (Bill Koll's) era … I remember clear as a bell this one time Bill slammed a foe to the mat so hard, the fellow was nearly unconscious. Bill shook him when he was on top, so it looked like the guy was trying to escape, and the referee called a pin…"

"They changed the slam rule after that," says Siddens. …

"I would slam 'em down if I could," Bill Koll was quoted in a 1985 Des Moines Register story, "The year I graduated, they took the slam out of wrestling … It was one of my favorite moves, a perfectly legal tactic. It wasn't something that was dubious. It was in our repertoire."

"Wing locks, double-bar arms, the body slam … those are some of the things we used that are illegal now. They were kind of painful, and helped make a person submit quicker." …

It is a long but informative article, well worth reading.

There is much else at the link, like others on his UNI team and more about his coaching career.



After his son Rob’s long and successful coaching career at Cornell, Rob Koll recently became the coach at Stanford:

Rob Koll - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org