Baylor in the news again, and not in a good way

[brett108]

WACO, Texas—Some of the wealthiest U.S. colleges are steering parents into no-limit federal loans to cover rising tuition, leaving many poor and middle-class families with debt they can’t repay.

Parents at Baylor University had the worst repayment rate for a type of federal loan called Parent Plus among private schools with at least a $1 billion endowment, according to a Wall Street Journal analysis of available Education Department data. Only about a quarter of Baylor parents paid down any of what they originally borrowed after two years.

Unlike undergraduate loans that have limits, there is no cap on what parents can borrow through the fast-growing Parent Plus program, no matter their income. Some parents wanting the best schools available for their children sign on the dotted line unaware how the debt can burden them into retirement.
Baylor increased its tuition sharply to transform itself from a regionally known Baptist college into a national brand that now has a $1.8 billion endowment. The central Texas school has added facilities, built a sports powerhouse and climbed college-ranking lists in a push to become a world-class research institution.



Among wealthy colleges, though, Baylor is one of the least generous with aid to needy students, publicly available documents show. It has suggested that parents make up what student loans and scholarships don’t cover through Parent Plus, according to interviews with current and former students, parents and employees.

“I will never get it all paid off,” said Trina Saverin, a 53-year-old public-school administrator in Texas. She owes $231,000 in federal student loans of which at least $65,000 in Parent Plus loans came from sending her daughter to Baylor, at least $74,000 in Plus loans for her son’s college costs, and loans for her own 2015 master’s degree.

Linda Livingstone, Baylor’s president since 2017, said that until a couple of years ago, “we were admitting students who really couldn’t afford Baylor.” The school now takes into account families’ ability to pay when offering acceptances, she said.

But families that stretched to pay for Baylor in the past may be stuck with their debt for decades. When asked what she would say to the parents of former Baylor students who were struggling, Dr. Livingstone said: “My heart goes out to families that are in that situation….We are working very, very hard to ensure that we don’t see that so much going forward.”

Plus loans—which are available for parents and graduate students—have become the new face of the student-debt crisis, helping drive a sea change in the student-loan marketplace. Until five years ago, undergraduates borrowed more than parents and grad students combined; now parents and grad students borrow more, according to the Journal’s analysis of federal data.


Parents owe $103.6 billion in Parent Plus loans, which Congress uncapped in the 1990s. Taxpayers bear the losses if the loans aren’t repaid. Defaults don’t hurt colleges, which get the money upfront.



The loans have been a boon in particular for aspirational private colleges, allowing them to charge nearly as much as some top-tier schools but not provide the same level of financial help from the schools’ coffers. Baylor families using the loans were disproportionately low-income compared with parents using the loans at the other wealthy schools in the Journal analysis.

Of the Baylor families who took out Plus loans, 47% had children receiving federal grants reserved for low-income students, data show, compared with an average of 28% among the wealthy schools.

Annabeth Mohon, a former Baylor admissions counselor and 2014 graduate, felt so conflicted about visiting poor neighborhoods in Texas to sell prospective students on a college they couldn’t afford that she left after a year on the job in 2015.

“I felt like a real jerk,” said Ms. Mohon, now an operations director at a Dallas photography studio who said she remains a proud Baylor Bear. “It’s a strong school, but not an Ivy League. I don’t know if the prestige matches the price tag as the school tries to sell it.”

I love the Baylor president’s response was essentially “thoughts and prayers”.

A guy that Tim Pool had as a guest suggested that universities be required to underwrite all student loans used at their university. I love that idea.

 

[Ace000087]

**** Baylor. That is all that is needed to be said.

 

[cydsho]

I won't comment on how insane you have to be to pay $50,000 for a year of college. I just won't.

I would like one of my kids to go to ISU but out of state is $35K. I love ISU but no freaking way.

 

[83cy]

The whole College business model needs some intervention. People paying $100,000 - $300,000 for majors where there are no jobs or don't pay anything close to the type of return to justify the expense. Unfortunately it's only going to get worse.

 

[DeereClone]

I half-way feel bad for kids that are saddled with student loan debt but have zero sympathy for grown adults that sign up for that level of stupidity.

 

[Big Daddy Kang]

Seems like higher education has largely become a scam preying on families and enabled by student loan programs.

 

[Cydkar]

I would like one of my kids to go to ISU but out of state is $35K. I love ISU but no freaking way.

Wow! Agree. College isn't worth that much. I'm a big CC proponent.

 

[BCClone]

Wow! Agree. College isn't worth that much. I'm a big CC proponent.

For certifications and tech stuff or for a bachelor degree?

 

[NWICY]

when Baylor makes the news is it ever in a good way?

Last April NCAA MBB tourney.

 

[MJ29]

I despise Dave Ramsey, but I'm sort of interested in this documentary he's been promoting.

Borrowed Future Documentary: Uncovering the Student Loan Crisis in America

The Borrowed Future Documentary uncovers the dark side of the student loan industry and exposes how the system is built to work against consumers.

www.ramseysolutions.com

 

[Remo Gaggi]

Is it the art school that ran ads in the paper when I was a kid, where you had to draw a cartoon turtle with a baseball cap to exhibit your talents?

I drew the pirate. Did a pretty good job, got a scholarship to the Minneapolis Art Institute when I was 10. Pretty hilarious back in the 60s.

 

[randomfan44]

I would like one of my kids to go to ISU but out of state is $35K. I love ISU but no freaking way.

Kids can usually earn scholarships to cut out of state rates down pretty significantly at most state institutions, at least in the Midwest. My daughter earned enough scholarships that she is basically getting in-state tuition at her school of choice.

 

[HFCS]

I know of someone that went to a private "Art" school. Costs about $60k per year. They were ecstatic because they received biggest scholarship in their high school of $16k per year for four years. The $16k scholarship came from the school charging them $60k. I'll let you think that one through.

Anyway, gradated last spring with a mountain of debt and working at a near minimum wage job not doing anything remotely related to their trash degree.

I personally tried to tell them they were stupid before they chose it, but they shrugged it off. "Ill be in debt the rest of my life who cares, I'll be doing what I love." Which is the advice they heard from all of their teachers, friends, and parents... "Just do what you love."

Sorry end rant. It was someone close to me and makes me sick to think about.

PSA for parents of kids wanting to go into art & design fields. (My wife and I both have good design jobs).

1. make sure they are actually passionate about what they want to do and that they have some aptitude. I’ve been surprised that some hard working people who I didn’t see having a lot of natural artistic talent still have a good design career because they worked hard and enjoy it.

2. Make sure there are design jobs they can get with their degree. Graphic design, web design, industrial design, product design, apparel design, interior design, etc. Get one of these degrees and if they want to try to be a painter or sculptor for a few years, go for it. Classmate at ISU was graphic design and her fine art career actually really succeeded, she was set either way though. Most are not going to make a living painting or sculpting.

3. Make sure the school is a legit department at a major school like ISU college of design or if it’s a 2 year art school that it is world class (like school of the art institute in Chicago or a few others). Some 2 year art schools are incredible but many are scams.

4.Make sure they are ready to move to a major city depending on degree. Apparel design needs to be LA or maybe NYC unless someone gets lucky. Later in life maybe can find something remote, but to start need to be in a large city to not count on luck finding work.

 

[ISpyCy]

Things like this make me happy I went to Community College first.

 

[Scruff]

PSA for parents of kids wanting to go into art & design fields. (My wife and I both have good design jobs).

1. make sure they are actually passionate about what they want to do and that they have some aptitude. I’ve been surprised that some hard working people who I didn’t see having a lot of natural artistic talent still have a good design career because they worked hard and enjoy it.

2. Make sure there are design jobs they can get with their degree. Graphic design, web design, industrial design, product design, apparel design, interior design, etc. Get one of these degrees and if they want to try to be a painter or sculptor for a few years, go for it. Classmate at ISU was graphic design and her fine art career actually really succeeded, she was set either way though. Most are not going to make a living painting or sculpting.

3. Make sure the school is a legit department at a major school like ISU college of design or if it’s a 2 year art school that it is world class (like school of the art institute in Chicago or a few others). Some 2 year art schools are incredible but many are scams.

4.Make sure they are ready to move to a major city depending on degree. Apparel design needs to be LA or maybe NYC unless someone gets lucky. Later in life maybe can find something remote, but to start need to be in a large city to not count on luck finding work.

Should add, I've seen many go into art and do wonderful at it. Sorry for trashing art. I have a cousin that's crushing it, ISU Design Graduate! She could be doing better had she taken at least Econ 101, but she still doing extraordinarily well. The issue isn't with art itself. Its with picking a major with zero thought to how you plan to make money when you finish school.

 

[HFCS]

Should add, I've seen many go into art and do wonderful at it. Sorry for trashing art. I have a cousin that's crushing it, ISU Design Graduate! She could be doing better had she taken at least Econ 101, but she still doing extraordinarily well. The issue isn't with art itself. Its with picking a major with zero thought to how you plan to make money when you finish school.

No it's better to be overly cautious, there are way too many scam schools exploiting people who may naturally tend to be dreamers.

I probably should have put #3 as the first thing.

The scam schools names sound identical to the excellent art schools in many circumstances.

 

[cyclonesurveyor]

I would like one of my kids to go to ISU but out of state is $35K. I love ISU but no freaking way.

In-state for Colorado State is $36k, CU even more.

 

[diaclone]

How Baylor Steered Lower-Income Parents to Debt They Couldn’t Afford

New federal data show the Texas university and some other colleges with big endowments guided families into no-limit Parent Plus loans to cover rising tuition, leaving them with onerous payments. “I will never get it all paid off.”

www.wsj.com

Baylor is scum in so many ways......

 

[jackrabbit]

One of the biggest reasons that the cost of college has gone up is the percentage of the cost that the 'state' absorbs has decreased significantly over the last several decades. The attached story is from 2015 and the state of Washington. But the same trend has happened in IA and every other state. The 'state' is absorbing a lower and lower percentage of the cost of college and students and families are paying a higher share of the cost.

The cost of higher education in WA hasn't increased much, but the price has gone up - here's why - Economic Opportunity Institute Economic Opportunity Institute



So the question is, does the 'state' find value in subsidizing the cost of college education. The more the 'state' finds value in citizens receiving a college education, the more it will subsidize college education. The less value the 'state' finds, the less the state will subsidize college education. Over the last several decades as the graph shows, the percentage of the state subsidy has decreased.

However during that time the percentage of the adult population with a college degree has drastically increased from under 10% in 1950 to about 30% in 2015. See the snip it below.



So another important question is do all the people currently attending college need to go to college for the job/career they get into. If you keep the cost to the 'state' constant year over year, one possible solution is to make 'entry' to college more difficult so there are fewer students. Then by keeping the state funding at the current level the percentage of the college cost covered by the 'state' for the remaining students will decrease.

 

[Cyfan1965]

How many reasons do you need to give Baylor the death penalty as an institution?