Viewing Habits Suggests Soccer's Rise. Baseball's Decline.
- Thread starter Althetuna
- Start date
Yeah, high school baseball numbers are still really strong. I think it was like two years ago but there was like 70 Freshman try out.
No, I get it. Like for me personally, I'm a Cubs fan, but it's almost impossible for me to watch a baseball game, even a Cubs game, on TV, unless it's a game of substance like a playoff game. I'll usually just follow along on Twitter or check the box score. If I'm at a game, I hardly ever take my eyes off the action.
For soccer, I prefer to watch Premier League games, because it's the league I'm tied to. It's like if I had the option to watch TCU-Baylor or Alabama-Kentucky, I'd pick the Big 12 game.
I think the biggest thing our society is changing towards, which has been mentioned, is wanting sped up games. What I like about soccer is that it's a 90 minute match, with a 15-20 minute halftime, and maybe a few extra minutes added on. It's the closest to a "fixed" time slot, where baseball is variable. I worked a couple seasons in Minor League Baseball, and we would place bets on if the games would be over or under 3 hours, and it was typically over.
As someone who hasn't been engaged in baseball since I played Little League, but enjoys to watch a game in person every now and again, I think there are two reasons why baseball fails:
1) Too many games. This leads to all the problems people are talking about here. Because there are so many games, any one individual game is meaningless. This means that players who are great in the moment are not valuable, instead players who are consistent over the long haul as determined by statistical analysis are valued the most by owners/managers. The game just simply is not about having a great moment. So of course you don't have stars, because stars aren't valuable in the game. Of course no one watches, because no game is meaningful. There's very little chance of a Cinderella story or any other kind of interesting story, because over the course of so many games the big money teams are almost always going to win out. And because of all that, no one really cares about the story of baseball or baseball players.
2) Too dogmatic. There are so many rules about how to be both a player and a fan of baseball. And if you don't like those rules, you're not allowed in the club. These rules turn people off who weren't literally raised on baseball.
Even many people who are true fans of baseball (at least those posting in this thread) don't truly watch the games. Everyone here talks about how the vast majority of their baseball "watching" time is using it as background noise. For me, and I think a lot of people, the reason to go to a game in person is to enjoy a nice day outdoors with friends or family. The game itself is not the main draw. I think the sport needs to find a way to make it interesting. Cutting the number of games and emphasizing individual player and team performance would be the best path to that, imo.
1) Too many games. This leads to all the problems people are talking about here. Because there are so many games, any one individual game is meaningless. This means that players who are great in the moment are not valuable, instead players who are consistent over the long haul as determined by statistical analysis are valued the most by owners/managers. The game just simply is not about having a great moment. So of course you don't have stars, because stars aren't valuable in the game. Of course no one watches, because no game is meaningful. There's very little chance of a Cinderella story or any other kind of interesting story, because over the course of so many games the big money teams are almost always going to win out. And because of all that, no one really cares about the story of baseball or baseball players.
2) Too dogmatic. There are so many rules about how to be both a player and a fan of baseball. And if you don't like those rules, you're not allowed in the club. These rules turn people off who weren't literally raised on baseball.
Even many people who are true fans of baseball (at least those posting in this thread) don't truly watch the games. Everyone here talks about how the vast majority of their baseball "watching" time is using it as background noise. For me, and I think a lot of people, the reason to go to a game in person is to enjoy a nice day outdoors with friends or family. The game itself is not the main draw. I think the sport needs to find a way to make it interesting. Cutting the number of games and emphasizing individual player and team performance would be the best path to that, imo.
That's why I made a point to say that Ankeny Little League is phenomenal. Before the kids start AAA, I've always coached at those lower levels (T-Ball, coach pitch, coach recovery etc) and the last time I heard there were 800 kids that play those lower levels every year. It's a lot of fun and still a lot of games (~25 or so depending on rain outs). They had 200 kids out for AAA. Then 100 for AA. It's not that those kids stopped playing, they just went to other leagues, which is too bad.
I am an avid baseball watcher. I watch my team as often as I can (I can't hang for the late games most of the time) and will even watch other games even if I only have mild interest.
That said, I can totally understand why it doesn't appeal to a lot of people.
For one thing, I agree the season is too long. I don't think it should start sooner than May. This would alleviate a lot of the weather issues for opening day/series in northern markets.
I also think they need to find a way to avoid games going 3.5-4 hours. I think they deployed a pitch clock in the minors as a trial, but I've rarely seen it enforced. We'll see if it makes it to the majors.
I don't have any other suggestions, but I do agree there seems to be a declining interest in baseball and as a baseball lover, that's very sad to me.
That said, I can totally understand why it doesn't appeal to a lot of people.
For one thing, I agree the season is too long. I don't think it should start sooner than May. This would alleviate a lot of the weather issues for opening day/series in northern markets.
I also think they need to find a way to avoid games going 3.5-4 hours. I think they deployed a pitch clock in the minors as a trial, but I've rarely seen it enforced. We'll see if it makes it to the majors.
I don't have any other suggestions, but I do agree there seems to be a declining interest in baseball and as a baseball lover, that's very sad to me.
I 100% agree. Ankeny, Johnston, and Urbandale all have really great Little Leagues and it really bothers me that West Des Moines doesn't.
This is a discussion you could have about the relative quality of the US national team, but honestly the biggest obstacle that soccer had in terms of popularity in the US was that it wasn’t available on TV.
People in the US can get behind big events like the World Cup or Olympics every 4 years. Occasions like these even draw a significant number of non-sports fans, but national team soccer is so sporadic that it’s never going to be a huge driver of overall fandom. It will get you some eyeballs, but you’re going to lose casual fans if they can’t watch the talent they’ve been exposed to unless it’s in a 4 year cycle.
Outside of those big events, you couldn’t regularly watch club soccer in Europe which is where the best talent plays. Now though, you can watch Premier League matches on NBC. If you have ESPN+, you can watch every Bundesliga match from Germany and Serie A in Italy. CBS has the rights to the Champions League. 20 years ago, you couldn’t really watch much of this unless you actively sought out obscure cable add-on channels that most people didn’t even know existed.
I don’t think Americans really care all that much about Americans being the best in a given sport. They just want to watch the best players play the game in the best leagues. As a fan of the Royals, I don’t care whether the team is made up of all US guys or if the roster is entirely Dominican or Venezuelan. If the team is good and winning tons of games, I’m in and I’m going to watch.
Also, don’t underestimate the impact that video games have on creating fans. Madden was huge for the NFL and I’d argue that FIFA is having the same kind of impact on creating soccer fans among the kids who grow up playing the sport currently.
I think there are people like me that still enjoy the experience. I don't want to see it go away. I think there are small tweaks that can improve it. There is still a ton of interest there, but youth participation, length of games, and the game basically becoming regionalized are things that worry me.
My kids are into card collecting now too... and let me tell you, you can really see the decline in baseball in those markets. You can buy a dang near mint Sandy Koufax card for the same amount as some NBA card for a player in his 2nd year. It's nuts.
I don't know. I think a big part of fandom is some sort of tie to a team you are passionate about. That's what drives the NFL in this country. Like it or not my son will never have the type of relationship with a premier league team as fans of NFL teams do, because quite frankly I'm never going to fly to England to watch a game. He's been to lots of Chiefs games.
I think the national team is important if we're ever going to get the sport really going. That's what has drawn the most interest and eyeballs. The TV ratings were MUCH higher for the women's world cup, where our women were playing than the men's without our team.
MLB's biggest issue is TV coverage, if you don't live in the right market, you can't watch your team play. It can't use the NFL model and keep relevant. Hell, I even live in the right market and I've had to change my provider twice in the last 3 years in order to watch the Cards play. It's a joke.
WINNER. Crew is huge in CBus. Almost done with a new 300 million dollar downtown stadium development. Going to games at the old erector set stadium was cool but this summer when the new stadium is open is going to be a hot ticket for all of Ohio outside of Cincy (Columbus Crew is “Ohio’s Team” like the Blue Jackets, FC Cincy is trash (but also opening a cool new stadium soon).
Yes, Sporting KC has been a hot ticket for a long time and MN United was a hot ticket but is ridiculous now that they are playing at Allianz.
Wish KC would have put that stadium closer to the core. Definitely may try to get to Allianz at some point when everything is back up and running. Crew is developing a nice little rivalry with MN Utd. Some of my friends that are hardcore Crew go up to Toronto and Montreal and they say it’s EPL level atmosphere pre-game, in-game, and post-game. Definitely want to make those trips as well.
This isn't a political post, so don't freak out.
I see baseball a lot like primaries. only the most dedicated and often Fringe people have a say in the outcome, not always realizing that the general public needs to find the solution palatable.
Every baseball person I've talked to about this seems to only care about what super dedicated baseball fans think of the sport, not with the general public thinks of the sport. So you kind of have an insular group of super dedicated people talking about the future of a sport while totally ignoring the general public.
I see baseball a lot like primaries. only the most dedicated and often Fringe people have a say in the outcome, not always realizing that the general public needs to find the solution palatable.
Every baseball person I've talked to about this seems to only care about what super dedicated baseball fans think of the sport, not with the general public thinks of the sport. So you kind of have an insular group of super dedicated people talking about the future of a sport while totally ignoring the general public.
I think soccer is extremely boring to watch. If I lived across the pond I could see myself getting into it a little more. Just better things to watch and follow over here. I do not think Baseball is one of them.
I used to love baseball, but I think the way it's trended over the years to introduce all kinds of advanced stats and new defensive strategies that eliminate offense, you know, the fun part of baseball, have really killed my interest in it. That and it just seems like situational hitting is a dying art. I am a Twins fan, and for the last 2-3 years I've watched them crush franchise HR records. Great and all, but they also strikeout at dumfounding rates. There is nothing in between Strikeouts and HR anymore it seems. You combine the most boring play in baseball (strikeout) with the most exciting (HR) and you just get a bunch of meh.
I used to love baseball, but I think the way it's trended over the years to introduce all kinds of advanced stats and new defensive strategies that eliminate offense, you know, the fun part of baseball, have really killed my interest in it. That and it just seems like situational hitting is a dying art. I am a Twins fan, and for the last 2-3 years I've watched them crush franchise HR records. Great and all, but they also strikeout at dumfounding rates. There is nothing in between Strikeouts and HR anymore it seems. You combine the most boring play in baseball (strikeout) with the most exciting (HR) and you just get a bunch of meh.
