While I appreciate what JP has done, hiring coaches has always been a weak point in his performance.
Next head coach after Bill Fennelly?
- Thread starter gocy444
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Can't say I disagree with you... outside of Campbell and Fred.
I'd argue Prohm was a decent hire at the time.
Always? Do you follow ISU FB?
Both of the BB programs need to and are capable of contending for conference titles far more often than they have. Prohm's seat is obviously very warm and he probably needs to make the NCAAs next season to save his job. Bill is obviously safe in terms of job security but if he can't contend for the title with the recruits he has coming in, he probably never will again and if so, Billy isn't the answer as the replacement.
I didn’t say he was incapable of making good hires. But he has had issues there. More so in the respect that he isn’t great and knowing when it’s time to move on.
In the big 4 sports at Iowa State he has made I believe 6 hires. Of those a grand total of 2 were successful. One was Fred who needed us to get the opportunity he wanted. Good hire but it was risky and it fell into his lap. Campbell was a good hire and looks to be great.
Those two are great and all but they don’t inspire total confidence in his abilities. I would be optimistic he’d make a good hire but I wouldn’t just follow him blindly.
Not the same situation, but
Yeah, I think if Bill really wants Billy, he is trying to get him a head job NOW so he can have some cred when Bill leaves. I'm sure tough due to Lyndsey's ties locally, etc.
That plan could also backfire...he goes and isn't successfull...then no way he gets the ISU look.
I think a lot of it depends on recruiting. As long as Fennelly continues recruiting so well with this staff, it increases the odds that one of them steps up when he retires. If the recruiting drops off, then we might see a more radical move by Pollard.
Jan Jensen is next in line at Iowa and Lisa is not walking away anytime soon. Jan is an incredible coach in her own right. Jennie makes great money at Drake- she is not leaving for ANY job until her family is much older. You have a better shot a Freese than you do Jennie- which is no shot at all
I don't think we have to worry about it for another five years, at least. The thing is, I don't see Fennelly stepping down on top unless it's to give Billy the job. Forcing Johnny out when he really wanted to coach his senior loaded team was in retrospect a big deal for transition at ISU on the MBB side of things. I don't see Fennelly doing that for anyone but Billy. Only two choices, give it to Billy and keep the staff or start completely over with a new coach and staff. We'll know in five years or so what Pollard decides.
When the time comes it will be a really good job for someone. Even though we are not the perennial Top 25 program some fans think we are, we are "Top 25 Choice" (or close to it) in attractiveness for a coach. We have a great fan following, not as good as it was but still Top 10 even with our inflated attendance claims. Hell, we have more no shows than most have total attendance. Anything in the 4000-5000 is really good for WBB. Great arena, decent facilities (not elite but okay) and enough tradition to have some market cachet. Going to be tempered somewhat by the fact we won't be throwing in excess of $1M/year at someone.
I gave up on us taking the proverbial "next step" and being some sort of national power some years ago but it's reasonable to think a good coach could maintain the mostly status quo of annual NCAA appearances and upper tier Big 12 finishes. I do think it will be a little tougher than in the past. Iowa is pretty much the Big 10 version of us so we have stiff competition just down the interstate and the continued popularity of volleyball makes talented bigs a rare commodity that only the elite schools seem to get. On the other hand the league has been trending downward as a WBB power conference so league competition is not as stiff as it was (outside of the obvious #1 team). Not sure the outlook for the Big 12 over the next five years but it's not a strong league right now.
/end stream of consciousness
When the time comes it will be a really good job for someone. Even though we are not the perennial Top 25 program some fans think we are, we are "Top 25 Choice" (or close to it) in attractiveness for a coach. We have a great fan following, not as good as it was but still Top 10 even with our inflated attendance claims. Hell, we have more no shows than most have total attendance. Anything in the 4000-5000 is really good for WBB. Great arena, decent facilities (not elite but okay) and enough tradition to have some market cachet. Going to be tempered somewhat by the fact we won't be throwing in excess of $1M/year at someone.
I gave up on us taking the proverbial "next step" and being some sort of national power some years ago but it's reasonable to think a good coach could maintain the mostly status quo of annual NCAA appearances and upper tier Big 12 finishes. I do think it will be a little tougher than in the past. Iowa is pretty much the Big 10 version of us so we have stiff competition just down the interstate and the continued popularity of volleyball makes talented bigs a rare commodity that only the elite schools seem to get. On the other hand the league has been trending downward as a WBB power conference so league competition is not as stiff as it was (outside of the obvious #1 team). Not sure the outlook for the Big 12 over the next five years but it's not a strong league right now.
/end stream of consciousness
While JP hasn’t always been successful with his hires, it’s important to remove the hindsight lens when looking back.
Chizik was the top assistant in the country, and Mack Brown had given him his highest recommendation. Many people were impressed that ISU had been able to land him. His issue was he wasn’t a good fit and hired his buddies. And even if he had an eye on another job I don’t think Jamie expected him to bolt after two years.
McDermott was considered a good hire at the time; KSU wanted him too. He recruited well while he was here. Honestly it’s somewhat baffling he couldn’t pull it together here, considering he’s been successful everywhere else he’s coached. He’s shown to be a better fit at Creighton than ISU.
Rhoads ended up not working out, but was what the fans wanted after Chiz bolted. His first few years were fun and brought us some nice moments, which helped build up the fan base and donor base for someone like Campbell to take over.
Fred was risky, but a home run. JP deserves credit for taking that chance. Fred failing at ISU would’ve meant JP would have been sent packing as well.
Prohm has been struggling, but I don’t think it was considered a bad hire at the time. From what I remember it sounds like SP interviewed well which would sway most hiring managers.
Campbell has been phenomenal so far. Well done by JP.
The Cael departure and Jackson hire weren’t good for the wrestling program. But Dresser appears to have been a good hire.
Obviously if JP had a crystal ball he wouldn’t have made a lot of those hires, but most weren’t considered bad in the moment. And I think with Gene and Greg he learned some lessons about what fit means at ISU. Any time you hire someone you’re weighing several factors and ultimately taking some level of risk. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn’t.
While it’s true that some of his hires have not worked out or outright failed, JP has done much more good than bad for ISU athletics.
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Again I’m not saying I think JP makes a bad hire. The suggestion was that we should just blindly follow JP which I don’t think is a fair stance.
People in this thread have just said they trust JP. Trusting =/= blindly following.
This is what prompted the discussion.
Maybe I’m putting some words in their mouth but that is way to strong of an endorsement of his hiring abilities IMO.
People say this stuff but does anyone without and unlimited budget always hit it out of the park?Texas hasn't. Michigan hasn't. Ohio State hasn't. None of the Florida schools have. Oklahoma has done well. So, if those guys have a tough time getting the right fit, why should we expect every hire to be great? I get that we want a great hire every time but if we start looking at ADs from simply that angle, we will only ever hire an AD tjhat hasn't ever been one because I think everyone is going to fail here and there. I mean, Indiana hired what was thought to be the best available guy out there. I guess I just 50% is maybe all that's a reasonable expectation.
@kcdc4isu obviously has a lot of trust in JP, but saying they're "blindly following" JP is a bad faith argument IMO.
Part of Pollard's job is hiring coaches, and he should face scrutiny for hires that haven't worked. But the point of my first post was that there's a lot of nuance involved, especially at a place like ISU.
Ultimately my expectation of Jamie is that he conducts a full search and seeks input from several parties. But ultimately it's his decision at the end of the day, and I trust he'll pick the person he feels is best for the job. Hopefully he gets it right.
Don't agree with this - of course Jennie would take the top spot at her alma mater. No matter what kind of "great money" she gets at Drake, it would be frustrating for any coach to have no shot at recruiting the best players. Bigger stage, bigger fan base, chance to win nationally. Slam dunk.
Also, coaches move on to bigger jobs, even with young families, all the time.
It’s not a job in which there is not transition risk. JP will have to do a legitimate search, but I think that search SHOULD yield a great prospect with a solid resume.
Even if we hire someone well regarded, It’ll be very tough to replicate what BF has done. but I’d trade for some better peak years at the expense of the consistency.
I think more of my concerns are on the back end of the hiring process. If we make the wrong hire are we willing to take corrective actions. Iowa State is and should remain a patient place but we also can’t wait to long.
Chizik was thought to be a good hire. It ended up he was a really bad fit. Thankfully he left fairly quick. Rhoads was thought to be a decent hire. I actually was one of the more patient people there but the consensus is he waited to long.
McDermott was thought of as a good hire. Again he didn’t end up being the right fit. This time though Pollard was giving him to much time. At the same time we have to thank Creighton for hiring him. Fred was a great hire but as I said he fell into JPs lap. Prohm I actually don’t put a ton of responsibility on JP for hiring. Fred left at a tough time. Leath also interfered. At the end of the day Prohm was probably in my top 2. Again with that said the question is is he capable of knowing when is the time to move on.
You expanded it to wrestling so I’ll address that too. The whole Cael situation has been debated before but either way that left a bad taste for people I think. Now I didn’t follow wrestling when Jackson was hired so I don’t know how that one was viewed. Still he was kept for far to long.
Like you said there is a lot of nuance. Pollard is as of last year the 7th longest tenured AD in the P5. He’s done a ton for Iowa State Athletics in his time here. That doesn’t mean he is immune from criticism.
Don't disagree at all but the Iowa job isn't opening up anytime soon so it doesn't matter. Bluder is 58 and doing a good job. She likely would have hosted as a #4 this March. Going to be a more down year for 2020-21 but she has good players coming in so likely will bounce back quickly although she's likely to miss her senior guards in the short term. It's not like she is retirement age or that fans/AD are unhappy.
Neither Iowa or ISU is going to have an opening anytime in the next five years IMHO.
I’ll agree on the holding on to coaches point. McD shouldn’t have gotten a fifth year. Jackson was retained for too long and put the wrestling program in a hole. Jury is still out on Prohm, but if he has another bad year letting him stay would be too long. Rhoads probably should’ve been let go after 2014, but when you factor in his early success and staff shakeup after 2013 it makes sense that 2015 was the last stand.
I do think part of the appeal of coaching at ISU is that Jamie has a good relationship with his coaches. It helps attract coaches, but also might make it harder for him to make those tough decisions. Jamie has been open on podcasts from last year that he doesn’t want to do hair triggered firings so ISU doesn’t lose any appeal with coaches that might otherwise view ISU as a tough place to win
