I'm sad. I'll be 87 in May. And I'll never see my beloved Cyclones in another NCAA tournament. Or, Javan Johnson is DeAndre Kane II, Walker is Haliburton II, Tyrese comes back, or some hot shot PG transfers to ISU. I expect none of the above. Prohm won't be fired, he has no point guards on next years roster, and after next year's disaster, it would take Coach K 2-3 years to rebuild. I'm healthy, but i doubt if i last that long.
This is why Prohm must go........
- Thread starter ohly2311
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Don't put words into peoples mouths. Nobody is saying it can't be better but almost no teams are immune to having a down year or two. The number of people that absolutely refuse to look at the entire picture is astonishing.
I have no idea if that's true or not, but if his seat "isn't even lukewarm yet" that's a big problem. Whether or not he should be fired is a matter of opinion, but if next year isn't a huge indicator of whether he should be allowed to continue to run this program to Jamie that is an issue.
And this is what kills me. You don't think you can look at the entire picture and find his tenure a disappointment? You don't think there's a rational basis for that opinion?
I've said many times I think how you assess Steve is more about the good years than the bad years. We've had two really bad years out of the last 3. No way around it. So the question becomes, does the good outweigh the bad? And I think there's an argument to be had both ways there. Some think they were disappointments relative to talent/expectations. Some think you can't complain about a Sweet 16 and a few Big 12 titles. There's merit to both.
If you track back the posts you are referencing it started with someone essentially saying we shouldn't have expected him to keep the program at the level it was at because Fred's tenure had been historically successful and that was going to be hard to maintain. I think that's ridiculous. Any time you hire someone to this high of position and give them this much money you expect them to at least maintain, if not elevate, the program. That's the expectation.
It's just another in a long line of excuses made on his behalf when basketball really is a zero-sum game.
Not sure how much weight I would put into where the class falls in what has been the deepest league for several years. I don't care which way you cut it, CSP put together one hell of a class and will have a ton to sell for the 2021 class.
Yeah I would certainly agree on that. Last year we were picked to get 7th in the league and be a bubble team by the end of the year and we exceeded those expectations. Because of how good we looked at times last year, we now view last year as an underachieved season.
Trust me, I get it. However, I can take a step back and understand that the year 3 dip was going to happen and that this year was a product of losing some really good players quicker that anticipated. IMO what is going to make or break CSP is going to be finding quality 4 year guys that can help balance out the early departures. I think it's also worth noting that college hoops is at a crossroads right now with the number of players leaving early. You can call it excuse making but some of you guys need to step back into reality too. Take a look around college hoops this year and how low the quality is across the board. Sure, I think here are areas where CSP needs to improve but I also think it's insane to even entertain firing him at this point.
Honestly, if the program shows decent progression next year and CSP has another good class signed I will guarantee you that JP doesn't even entertain the idea of firing him. At this point y'all need to table the fire talk because it isn't happening.
Yeah I'm not going to get mad at Prohm for not bringing in a recruiting class higher than other Big 12 schools when we're our class is still rated in the top-25.
Thay would be insane to keep him if there aren’t major improvements next season.
I definitely think his seat is warm. If the team looks the same as this next year, I think he has to go. But I think if there are improvements he stays even if they don't quite make the tournament. But I would guess he has to make the NIT at least to stay.
Good post, I appreciate the rational and thoughtful discussion. I'm with you on your analysis with Prohm - especially the 2016-17 team. But I could say he under performed every other year based on the talent level of the team.
Let's see how next year goes, but I have doubts that Jamie would make a move even if we are bad again. But if that did happen and Jamie was willing to pay 8th-10th place Big 12 money again (which he's done for the past 2 ISU coaches), we'll be in this crap shoot again hoping the next guy is the right one.
If it were me, I'd spend the extra $1.5 million or so to get a proven guy like Gregg Marshall (we'd probably have to pay $4 million and we are paying Prohm $2.5 mil). Or someone like Buzz Williams who left for A&M last year for $3.8 million. If we are going to pay $2-$2.5, we'll be going the mid-major route and hoping.
That's fair. But "decent progression" is basically not losing 20 games again. If we are fighting to be .500 in the Big 12, I'd call that progression and wouldn't be against another year for Prohm.
I'm all for another year. However, I will say this year has moved the bar for next year for me to consider him as someone capable of running this program. He burned through alot of goodwill with this disaster.
IMO if he goes something like 7-11 or 8-10 in conference play there wont even be a discussion on his seat being hot as long as he has a good class put together.
But here is the issue.. Prohm's first two years he did maintain the same level of basketball as Hoiberg. He made a Sweet 16, won a Big 12 Tournament, and won 3 NCAA tournament games. In Hoiberg's final two years, he made a Sweet 16, won 2 Big 12 Tournaments, and won 2 NCAA tournament games. If you didn't think there was going to be a dip in quality and success after arguably the best core of players left the program, then I don't know what to tell you.
Do you know why people wanted to come to Iowa State to play? Hoiberg. When he left, I'm sure lots of big time transfers and recruits were a little bit reluctant to come Iowa State because "The Mayor" was no longer there. I have no idea if anyone outside a big named guy would've been able to come in here and attract talent right away. That's why it took Prohm a little bit more time to be able to recruit high level guys. And with the rule changes and how the structure of the NBA / G-League has changed, those high level guys are now leaving early. If these same rules were in place when guys like Georges and Monte were here, I have no idea if either of them would've made it through there 4 years here.
Prohm has to adjust. Other coaches are having to adjust. College basketball is changing. Fans, boosters, and the AD have to show some sort of patience or else this program is going to turn into an endless cycle of coaches and the successful seasons will be outliers instead of consistent. Hoiberg was one of only a few coaches in all of college basketball that was able to come in and turn a program around in about two years. Look across the landscape of college basketball, specifically the successful ones, and you'll find far more coaches that had to fail before they succeeded than you'll find coaches that built a successful program in the matter of 5 years or less.
Again, I don’t think it happens. He was always going to he next year, regardless.
however, if there is something that can be pointed to as reason for optimism, then I agree he will be back. But there has to be some feeling of hope for the future next year, or JP will be forced to make a move.
Would you have been all for firing Johnny after the 1990 season or even 91? I could argue that the 1990 season was worst than this one. I agree Prohm needs to get his crap together and fast, but he will be here next year and if there is improvement probably the following year, so sit back and hope for some major improvements, but above all GO CYCLONES.
