No Troll What We'd Like to See Discussion

[BryceC]

Let’s just make a few assumptions right away to frame the discussion:

1. We aren’t going to crap on players. They are doing their best. I absolutely respect the heck out of every one of them, most of whom came from somewhere a long way away to a place they didn’t know to try and achieve a dream.
2. Prohm isn’t going to get fired after this year.
3. Hoiberg isn’t coming back.
4. TH is going pro.
5. This season, for all intents and purposes, is over. They can shuffle the pieces around on the team, start one guy over another, etc, but let’s be honest, it’s not going to make much of a difference.

Now, for what I’d like to see for 2021:

1. Identity on defense. The departure of TH will be the last departing plus player on offense. For all of Prohm’s talk about being tough, gritty, defensive minded… he has not been able to effectively communicate it. He needs to fire an assistant and bring in a guy to instill that mindset in this team. If he doesn’t do this, he’ll be fired anyway and players will likely transfer out, so he needs to do this even if it drives guys away.
2. Also on this, we tried a bunch of defenses yesterday that I thought were just doomed to failure. The Young/MJ two bigs doubling the opposing big was an alley oop machine. The zone was a disaster. That said, I think we need to lean into that zone next year. We go full Baylor. Foster/Conditt down low, Johnson or Blackwell on the edges, and a consistently feisty Jackson at the point. I honestly think we’ll have to play 90’s Knicks basketball, slow it down, grind it out, work from the inside out.
3. We absolutely need Jackson to develop a 3 point shot. He’s struggling mightily right now but I like what I’m seeing from him from an effort and tenacity level. Honestly I think he’s the only guy actually playing like Prohm wants this team to right now.

If this team is going to have success going forward, the identity of the team needs to change. If it doesn’t next year and we roll the ball out the same way we are this year without TH, that’s going to be one of the worst teams in the modern history of the program. It’s up to Prohm to figure that out or get fired. I do think there are kids that want to defend the legacy of Hilton on this team and I’m sure this isn’t what they pictured when they signed up for this.

I also think we should honestly just be nice and not freak out the rest of the way. This year is what it is. No use getting pissed about it.

 

[intrepid27]

To me, this team not only lacked toughness. but they look poorly coached. Very predictable on offense. Very few ball fakes. Telegraph passes. No vocal leader. And so on.
I realize this is a limited roster but I don't think they are close to reaching their potential.

 

[madguy30]

If there hasn't been an identity by now, I don't think it's happening.

Someone will say 'but offensive computer rankings!' but it's not like it's been a well oiled machine or something.

 

[CloneFan4]

Not trolling when I say I honestly don't care about a Prohm-led Iowa State Basketball program. Nothing will change with him at the helm. Full apathy mode has kicked in for me. I have enough competitive sports teams that I follow to keep me held over until he's gone.

 

[Cardinal2001]

We hung in the game when we were 3-6 from 3. When we fell behind we were forcing threes, quickly going down in percentage. Shot selection is key.

Defensive intensity, and rebounding intensity. Players watched Kansas take the ball from us. We don't block out. We don't "go after" the ball, we wait for it.

 

[Cardinal2001]

We also complain about not having a vocal leader. If TH doesn't develop that, he will be drowned out in the NBA, and he won't be going pro next year.

Time to step up.

 

[SCyclone]

You've all made good points. Constructive criticism is the most honest.

I have to agree with the point about identity.....Prohm wants to be an up-tempo, high-scoring team, but they don't appear ready nor willing to do that.

He also wants them to be tougher defensively, but I'm not 100% sure they're all buying into that, either. A couple exceptions are Nixon and Solo. Defense is hard work. And the only reward is winning ballgames. Nobody gets their picture on the front page of the sports section taking a charge, or sticking to your man.

The two biggest things I see this team lacking are defensive intensity and long-range shooting. As @Cardinal2001 pointed out above, when ISU was making 3-point shots, they were in the game.

 

[2forISU]

So the team that played well in the Bahamas has just disappeared, I'm not sure why. Were we that fragile that Iowa broke us?

 

[Cyinthenorth]

While I was in the shower this morning, I put on my thinking cap about the core we'll return next year, and I kind of put them in tiers:

Tier 1 (Will return, 80-100% confidence)
Bolton
Jackson
Conditt
Grill
Johnson

Tier 2 (Will likely return, 50-75% confidence)
Griffin
Lewis
Young

Tier 3 (Will be gone)
Jacobson (grad)
Nixon (grad)
Haliburton (pro, though certainly failed a big test last night)

Only certainly returning a core of 5 players, and adding 4 freshman to the mix. I certainly see another long season looming, and as others have echoed, this team will struggle to shoot as well, and in turn, score. I'm not sure what kind of identity these guys can piece together. A lot of it I think comes down to development. Between Grill, Jackson, and Bolton, I'd say 2 of the 3 need to become knock down shooters. They're all young enough to develop that skill in an offseason I think. If any of these guys even now, were a consistent 3 pt threat, I think we'd be seeing some different results. But teams know they don't have to guard us out there.

The moving back of the 3 point line this past offseason has had a huge impact, and not just on ISU as I look around CBB.

None of this answers the question about what we'll do to improve defensively next year. I guess you just kind of look and see that these guys are all young, with the exception of Lewis and Young, and could develop. Gotta cross your fingers and pray that maybe with some development and new coaching, we see some change. Otherwise, more of the same will only further increase the level of apathy, and Prohm will be shown the door after another long 2021 season.

 

[coolerifyoudid]

Defense is first on the list for me. There are some decent individual efforts at times, but unless everyone buys into it all game, individual efforts will never matter. This team needs some fast break points to supplement its anemic offense.

We're not dictating how teams are going to play us defensively. We don't have that offensive firepower of past teams. Once other teams don't have to game plan for us, they put their best lineup out there and make us be the reactionary team. If we're going to be that team, it has to start with defense first.

I'll never pretend to be a coach, but my thoughts: I would always prefer to see a feisty man-to-man defense, but it might benefit us to focus on a scrappy 2-3 zone or a box and one zone. We get routinely killed on pick and rolls. Limit screen responsibilities and let them clog up passing lanes and guard an area. We're not guarding the three point line very well as it is so I can't imagine that getting worse. It may be what some of these guys need.

 

[brett108]

I'm going to slightly disagree on the giving their all. But I think it is a product of what Prohm is doing. We need to bring in an assistant that simply coaches defense. Run the team 10 deep and fly around on the defensive side of the ball, and fight for rebounds and make the opposition earn everything. All the guys on the court act like they are going to have to go 35 minutes or more, and maybe some do, but I would rather double the length of the bench and try and get some stops. We don't play defense, and that is something a team with a decent amount of athletes can do. I see the athletic pop in Tre Jackson, Young, Lewis, Jacobsen, etc. I want to see fight on that side of the ball and I will be back in an instant.

We may not like the team out East but you know their fans look at Garza with a blown up nose and stiches in his lip, and they appreciate it. I at least want to see some sweat on the brow once in a while.

 

[Cycl1]

Genuine question about the players because I'm just not on here as much and don't follow as much as I used too, but you say they are doing their best, but are they? We used to see posts from players like Naz on IG or Twitter shooting at the practice facility at 11 at night getting up hundreds of shots. Are these players doing that?

 

[GTO]

I think we have some talent on this team, but it is not being utilized correctly. Players are not being held accountable, lineups we throw out there don't make any sense, and players don't know their roles. In short, our players are not being put in a position to be successful.

I'm not saying this team should be an NCAA lock, even while playing their best, but they should have at least been a bubble team/NIT team.

My thoughts:

-Prentiss Nixon doesn't know what his role is. He is not a scorer/3pt shooter. Encourage him to focus on defense/taking charges and shoot that mid range jumper and floater which seem to work best for him.
-TH needs to be going to the rim more and looking for his shot. He is also a great spot up shooter, so maybe run some sets with Bolton drawing the defense and kicking out to TH for open shots once in a while.
-Grill and Jackson - limited minutes to help their growth and NEVER on the court at the same time.
-Conditt - needs to start and play the most of all the centers. Would like to see the pick and roll run with him and Bolton at times (instead of always TH). Run that pick and roll and I'll guarantee you that TH would be open on the wing.
-Solomon Young - work on his pick and roll defense. He is one of our best post defenders but struggles getting back quickly on pick and roll defensive rotations. I would also encourage him on offense to continue taking that mid-range jumper but also start posting up deep and taking it to the rim. Maybe draw some fouls.
-Griffin and Lewis - more minutes. Both guys have shown some effort and moving without the ball. Have them focus on crashing the boards.
-Jacobson- I have no idea what happened to him this year, but he should not be starting at this point. I would have Conditt starting in his place.

Just my non-coaching experience opinions.

 

[MartyFine]

Our defensive identity under Prohm is that we are bad at defense. Not a good rebounding percentage on either end of the floor either.

 

[BryceC]

We also complain about not having a vocal leader. If TH doesn't develop that, he will be drowned out in the NBA, and he won't be going pro next year.

Time to step up.

The entire appeal of TH in the NBA is that he's a guy who doesn't need the ball and that he can be effective without being the focal point. He's got a very good chance to be our best NBA player ever.

 

[Rabbuk]

Prohm getting replaced

 

[megamanxzero35]

I'd like to see younger bench players get more time. Zion showed something last night. This year is a wash. Get the guys who will be bigger contributors next year more time.

 

[tim_redd]

For me it was apparent early on this season that if we were going to be any good it was going to be because of the commitment to detail and high level performance of the defense for 40 minutes. We have come nowhere close to this. Last night we reverted to our early season form of no defense and thinking we are a 3 pt shooting team. Nothing has been learned. Looking forward to next year has really taken the wind out of my sails. We need an instant impact point guard and wing for next year. Hopefully we can get those two things in the spring, but spring recruiting is not a strength of Prohm. Maybe there will be a players only meeting soon.

 

[GTO]

Great points, everyone. What we're seeing is a coach who can't adjust to the roster he has. Prohm tries to have these guys play the way we played in previous years, but this roster is totally different. A coach like Weber, Dixon, or Huggins (or even Floyd and Eustachy) would have these players slowing the game down, playing hard defense, and focus on their strengths.

Look at Huggins and Weber teams for example. They really only have one or two scorers, but everyone else knew their specialized roles. Hard defense, rebounding, pressing, etc. Both coaches knew they did not have the firepower to compete with the Kansas and Dukes of the world, so they muck it up and limit offensive posessions for the other team. In a team with few shooters, we should have been doing something similar.

 

[pulse]

I can’t fairly apply any of your assumptions and then comment. We know who Prohm is and he doesn’t get them to do what he says. There is enough of a body of work. He says we want to be defensive, we aren’t. He doesn’t instill it. We know what it is and we’ve never had it.

He doesn’t get the team to rebound. We might do it one game, and then not again for another month.

The offense has “freedom” and is about basketball concepts. Well when you had Monte, Naz, George, etc they LEARNED it, they didn’t just naturally happen. There’s a reason Self said he took things from us, it’s because we knew what we were doing and good at it.