In reality, what is the ISU Basketball program?
- Thread starter tigerclone924
- Start date
Well, since Veishea is gone, we need something to riot over...
I like that Fred said it...and I think it speaks to his commitment. I don't believe he's the kind of guy who blows smoke.
I hope Fred has a vision to be the next Coach K. No reason why we can't have a legacy type program here.
Nicely said JSB. The sports world is full of teams with unfulfilled goals/expectations; that's just the way it works. I personally have learned to take such comments when they are spoken as a gesture of how hard the team and coach will work to be as good as they can be. No more, no less. A realistic look at this team reveals some warts, and the margin of error is not great. CFH is building a program that is getting consistently better as he goes. THAT's the important takeaway.
Yep....I had numerous discussions with my Dad this summer/fall about how this years team could be better than last years, but the results could be worse. So many things went right last year that part of me was expecting a steep correction to the center as far as luck goes. Still time for that to happen, I guess.....
But in some ways this year's team is doing as well or better than last year's team. They have better road wins. They beat Kansas. They haven't fallen behind by 10 almost every game. I think last year's team might have been a bit better and definitely more exciting, but this year's team is really good.
I LOVE that he said it and believes it. I believe they can do it too.
But my enjoyment of the basketball team isn't dependent on that happening this year. I'm enjoying the process.
And maybe we can worry about the Tom Davis effect when we have evidence that it is happening. Fred's teams have improved each year. I can make arguments for and against this year's team being better than last year's team at this point in the season and you won't get an argument from me either way (as long as you accept that this year's team is pretty damn good).
But this year could have easily been a rebuilding year and a bit of a step back. We lost two of our best players. Our other best player--Georges--has had to learn how to be the best player by himself. He's learning, it's a process but he's done a great job. And I think that people outside the program appreciate him more than some of us do. Monte has had to take over the PG all by himself and he's done better than we have the right to expect. We've had to integrate players to the team at different times.
In the modern era, we had been to 3 straight NCAA tournament appearances just once before last year. This year we are poised to do it for 4 straight years for the first time ever. And we are poised to do it in a killer conference. One where you can't hide from anyone and one filled with coaching legends.
I think we are rising, and most could agree with that. Where exactly we are depends on which group you fall into on the site.
Some posters only want to see us play in the NCAA tournament and as long as we do that they are happy. They would love to see conference championships and deep tournament runs, making the tournament is good enough for them. The posters are normally the ones that make threads after losses saying that everything is ok or respond to criticism with comments reminding everyone how pathetic things were when Greg McDermott was around, others just want to enjoy the ride not have any worries, and some have grown complacent with how things have been.
Another group of posters wants to see ISU in get into the tournament with a decent seed, and finishing 1st or 4th in conference doesn't really matter, because if you can get a good seed everything else will fall into place eventually. Just like the first group, winning the conference is something they want, but being a good seed with a chance for a deep tournament run means the most to them. These posters are the people that don't react too badly after losses unless the loss is pretty significant, like one to a really bad team or if it does something to possibly drop our seeding. Posters in this group are normally considered the most level headed and don't normally engage in the fighting between other groups because they fall in the middle
The last group are the posters who want to see Iowa State basketball take that one extra step and be able to know that our post season success last season isn't going to be a one time thing, and they want to see one more thing happen before they say we have made it. Some have been burned in the past by Cyclone sports, some know that's just how things happen sometimes, and others are just naturally skeptical. That one more thing they need to see could be a regular season championship, conference tournament championship, or another good run in the NCAA tournament, but no matter what it is they all want see it happen first before finally being able to feel confident. A chunk of these posters love Iowa State basketball and while they know Hoiberg isn't going to take us back to the dark ages, they don't want to get led on into false hope like we were with the football team and Paul Rhoads and have the program look good just to become stagnant, which can lead to anger after losses because many can remember times when Iowa State sports overall were terrible and want to have an elite team to cheer for now to make up for those bad seasons. The other chunk of the group try to provide realism to what just happened but often times end up in fights with the people in the first group because of differences in opinions. Overall, this group either is sick of having the rug pulled out from under them or they want Iowa State basketball to capitalize on the momentum they have now and become elite, which we haven't been in football or basketball in a long time.
Then you have the extremist groups that consists of the Chicken Littles, sunshine pumpers, ragers, excuse makers, blind worshipers, personal attackers, and the "superior fans" who shove their fandom down everyone else's throats, but these people are either mainly in the football section or they are a part of the minority.
Overall, different people here have different ideas of where we truly are as a program based on what they want out of the program. We are going up though, and I think next seasons team really should provide a blue print as to how far up the ladder we really are.
Some posters only want to see us play in the NCAA tournament and as long as we do that they are happy. They would love to see conference championships and deep tournament runs, making the tournament is good enough for them. The posters are normally the ones that make threads after losses saying that everything is ok or respond to criticism with comments reminding everyone how pathetic things were when Greg McDermott was around, others just want to enjoy the ride not have any worries, and some have grown complacent with how things have been.
Another group of posters wants to see ISU in get into the tournament with a decent seed, and finishing 1st or 4th in conference doesn't really matter, because if you can get a good seed everything else will fall into place eventually. Just like the first group, winning the conference is something they want, but being a good seed with a chance for a deep tournament run means the most to them. These posters are the people that don't react too badly after losses unless the loss is pretty significant, like one to a really bad team or if it does something to possibly drop our seeding. Posters in this group are normally considered the most level headed and don't normally engage in the fighting between other groups because they fall in the middle
The last group are the posters who want to see Iowa State basketball take that one extra step and be able to know that our post season success last season isn't going to be a one time thing, and they want to see one more thing happen before they say we have made it. Some have been burned in the past by Cyclone sports, some know that's just how things happen sometimes, and others are just naturally skeptical. That one more thing they need to see could be a regular season championship, conference tournament championship, or another good run in the NCAA tournament, but no matter what it is they all want see it happen first before finally being able to feel confident. A chunk of these posters love Iowa State basketball and while they know Hoiberg isn't going to take us back to the dark ages, they don't want to get led on into false hope like we were with the football team and Paul Rhoads and have the program look good just to become stagnant, which can lead to anger after losses because many can remember times when Iowa State sports overall were terrible and want to have an elite team to cheer for now to make up for those bad seasons. The other chunk of the group try to provide realism to what just happened but often times end up in fights with the people in the first group because of differences in opinions. Overall, this group either is sick of having the rug pulled out from under them or they want Iowa State basketball to capitalize on the momentum they have now and become elite, which we haven't been in football or basketball in a long time.
Then you have the extremist groups that consists of the Chicken Littles, sunshine pumpers, ragers, excuse makers, blind worshipers, personal attackers, and the "superior fans" who shove their fandom down everyone else's throats, but these people are either mainly in the football section or they are a part of the minority.
Overall, different people here have different ideas of where we truly are as a program based on what they want out of the program. We are going up though, and I think next seasons team really should provide a blue print as to how far up the ladder we really are.
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Where is the ISU basketball program? It's in great shape.
And to quote Mr. T "I pity the fool who doesn't see that".
I truly to pity the fool who has something great in their life, but can't enjoy it because they define happiness as something that is just a little bit better than what they have. That's a really bad way to live life.
And to quote Mr. T "I pity the fool who doesn't see that".
I truly to pity the fool who has something great in their life, but can't enjoy it because they define happiness as something that is just a little bit better than what they have. That's a really bad way to live life.
My point isn't about whether it's in great shape or not. It is clearly in great shape and presumably getting better! My question is in reference to those that feel we should never lose or are delusional about how good it really has been. It's been good! It's been great! But it hasn't been so good that we should look down our noses at other programs as if we are an elite program with rich history.
Man I hope it gets to a point one day (and we are definitely trending that way, sustaining it is the hard part) that we are talked about as an elite program. In terms of recent history we are on the cusp of entering elite status. But in the fickle world of NCAA athletics that can be here today and gone tomorrow.
i think the OP is underestimating how high the floor of the program is under CFH. he has really done a great job and thats resulted in pretty consistent success and corresponding higher expectations.
that being said, when I think of great "programs" around the country I tend to not think of the current coach as the deciding factor. Places like KU and arizona have had success under multiple coaches while programs like Duke and michigan state would likely be able to replace legandary head coaches without taking a huge step back in the long term because of the engrained culture. I do not feel like that is the case with Iowa State right now. I think Fred and his creative program management is a big part of the success and I do not at all feel like it could be replicated if he left.
that being said, when I think of great "programs" around the country I tend to not think of the current coach as the deciding factor. Places like KU and arizona have had success under multiple coaches while programs like Duke and michigan state would likely be able to replace legandary head coaches without taking a huge step back in the long term because of the engrained culture. I do not feel like that is the case with Iowa State right now. I think Fred and his creative program management is a big part of the success and I do not at all feel like it could be replicated if he left.
I don't mean to cherry pick, as I agree with most of your comments and probably fall into the 2 groups (2nd and 3rd I think) as I avoided the boards yesterday, but we have never been elite in either sports in my opinion.
Elite is superior to the rest. A) We've never won a national championship B) Never sustained long-term success or a given period that would define a team as elite.
We've had some great years, but wouldn't term that as "elite." I shouldn't have to explain football. Elite are Kentucky, Michigan State, Duke, UConn type teams in bball and the Alabama's, Oregon's etc. in football.
Preach!!!!
Building and sustaining a program is so important. KSU shared the big 12 title a couple years back...basically garbage now. There may be years we "stink" meaning, only make it to round of 32/16. And yes, we all know we are a play or two away from being an elite 8 team.
I know Fred and his staff are very critical and will look closely at ways to improve both through technique and recruiting.
I try to be a "fair" fan..yes, I still curse the loss at Tech...and the loss at Hilton the other night was deflating...but a reminder that we aren't quite at "championship level" if that makes sense. And I always remind myself we had a couple of buzzer beaters last year that boosted our wins, etc.
Yes, we can be critical as fans...I STILL catch myself "feeling" the missed FG vs Missouri to lose the Big 12 North and get ****** and wonder "what if"..but I also recognize that's not a way to live my life.
Thanks for catching that. Meant to change that part and forgot. We had elite level teams in 2000 and 2001, but you are right in saying that we have an elite program.
I mean, I love discussion, but even if we are elite, I don't want to be a program that looks down their noses at people. Having a history of dominance doesn't make it ok to be snob. That still always makes you a tool....
CycloneErik
Well-Known Member
Arizona has only had the 2 successful coaches. Lute built a pretty tremendous monster, but O'Neill wasn't on track (at least in their eyes) to keep things rolling.
Duke will roll on, because they've had this going forever (at this point). However, they could hire their own version of Doherty and fall off the radar.
Michigan State was good under Heathcote, but not the monster Izzo made them. They'll come back to the pack when he retires.
We're a Nue Blood.
ISU, Gonzaga, Baylor, Virginia, Wisconsin. I think these are the programs outside of the Blue Bloods + Louisville (not sure I'd call them a blueblood or not) that I would identify as could possibly win a national title in the next 5 years.
ISU, Gonzaga, Baylor, Virginia, Wisconsin. I think these are the programs outside of the Blue Bloods + Louisville (not sure I'd call them a blueblood or not) that I would identify as could possibly win a national title in the next 5 years.
