Think injuries are an excuse? Check out Missouri

[jbhtexas]

What the hell is with everyone's insane obsession with year 5?

The OP was comparing Pinkel's first six years at MU to Rhoads at ISU. I was simply pointing out that Pinkel's 5th year at MU seems to be going better than Rhoad's fifth year at ISU. Can't really compare the sixth year since it hasn't happened yet. calm down. There's no need for you to stroke out.

And about the recuiting, many posters here would debate your assertion that it is getting better. And if it is getting better, it's still at or near the bottom of the Big 12, which doesn't bode well for winning for conference games.

 

[AdamJGray]

I think you meant to say "consistently coached".

Good job on the podcasts by the way!

Thanks for listening!

 

[AdamJGray]

The OP was comparing Pinkel's first six years at MU to Rhoads at ISU. I was simply pointing out that Pinkel's 5th year at MU seems to be going better than Rhoad's fifth year at ISU. Can't really compare the sixth year since it hasn't happened yet. calm down. There's no need for you to stroke out.

And about the recuiting, many posters here would debate your assertion that it is getting better. And if it is getting better, it's still at or near the bottom of the Big 12, which doesn't bode well for winning for conference games.

I was not trying to compare his 6th year, so much as comment that it took time for Pinkels program to really kick in. Remember, there were a lot of Missouri fans that wanted him fired during his first 6 years. He kept his staff in place and it paid off big in year 7.

I don't think there is a magical year where things kick in for a program. Some coaches walk into better/worse situations than others. I've thought since before this season started that next year would be the year where it kicks in for our program. I didn't predict a bowl game this year and thought we'd struggle. Now I also didn't predict what we've seen to date, but I also didn't see an abundance of injuries from happening either.

 

[jbhtexas]

Our o-line wasn't intact against UNI either. Farniok got hurt in the middle of that game and our pass protection and running game were decent until he left. We lost because we couldn't stop the run game, something that has been either good or bad all year.

Somehow, it seems that it shouldn't come down to one lineman making the difference between success and failure when an FBS team plays against a mediocre FCS team. ISU didn't beat UNI because ISU couldn't score more than 28 points.

 

[jbhtexas]

I was not trying to compare his 6th year, so much as comment that it took time for Pinkels program to really kick in. Remember, there were a lot of Missouri fans that wanted him fired during his first 6 years. He kept his staff in place and it paid off big in year 7.

It is true the MU fans were calling for Pinkel's head, but MU fans will be what they will be. I would suggest if ISU had pulled off an 8-win season in year 3 or year 4, there would be much, much less negativity this year. 8 wins, and perhaps even 9-wins were in reach last year, if not for the perrenially terrible offense. The opportunity was there, and it was blown.

 

[GMan]

I was not trying to compare his 6th year, so much as comment that it took time for Pinkels program to really kick in. Remember, there were a lot of Missouri fans that wanted him fired during his first 6 years. He kept his staff in place and it paid off big in year 7.

I don't think there is a magical year where things kick in for a program. Some coaches walk into better/worse situations than others. I've thought since before this season started that next year would be the year where it kicks in for our program. I didn't predict a bowl game this year and thought we'd struggle. Now I also didn't predict what we've seen to date, but I also didn't see an abundance of injuries from happening either.

I agree that I don't get how this being year 5 is some magical make or break year compared to others. I don't think fans really understand that Rhoads inherited a program on a 10 game losing streak, over three years of not winning a road game, and a 3-21 conference record the three previous years at a school that has historically not been strong at football. That is not an easy situation to walk into, and to claim that Rhoads is suddenly not fit for ISU because a really bad half season in year 5 is simply assanine.

 

[isufbcurt]

People where saying at the beginning of the season that Gary Pinkel was on the hot seat I never got it. That guy didn't forget how to coach in 2012. He wasn't a worse coach in 2012 than he was in 2009. Paul Rhoads and his staff aren't a worse staff now than they were last year.

Anyway, last year Missouri won 2 SEC games. They beat 0-8 Kentucky and 1-7 Tennesse in OT (Tenn only win was against Kentucky). People were questioning Pinkel and his ability to coach in the SEC. Look at them this year and what does it tell you? When you have that many players get hurt in a year (especially on the offensive line), you simply aren't going to be successful. These guys are healthy now and their depth is better off for playing guys last year that wouldn't have normally. They are a 4th quarter collapse away from being undefeated and coasting to the SEC championship.

I read this article 2012 Injuries will make Missouri's 2013 offensive line better - Rock M Nation last year about how the injuries in 2012 would help the 2013 line for Missouri. It sure looks like it has. Why can't the same happen for Iowa State next year? Why can't this disastrous season turn into a positive in the future? You are getting young guys valuable playing experience that they wouldn't have normally received. Next year you are a year older, healthier, and you have more playing depth than you would have normally had.

Injuries are killing this football team. Mentally it has to be getting to them as well. But it doesn't mean the future of this program is in worse shape now that it was 2 years ago. I'm still of the belief that it's in better shape and we will see it next year with added experience and more importantly….health!

Go Cyclones!

Agree. Look at what injuries have done to Georgia this year!!

 

[Clonefan94]

It is true the MU fans were calling for Pinkel's head, but MU fans will be what they will be. I would suggest if ISU had pulled off an 8-win season in year 3 or year 4, there would be much, much less negativity this year. 8 wins, and perhaps even 9-wins were in reach last year, if not for the perrenially terrible offense. The opportunity was there, and it was blown.

This is the biggest problem. It would be different if we could point to different things every year as the issue that year wasn't as successful as we'd hoped. There has been one consistent for years here at ISU and that is an anemic offense. Seems every year we hear a different excuse as to why a 3 and out is the most consistent thing about this offense. I wouldn't have questioned a thing if we were scoring 40 every game, but getting beat with the other team scoring 45, we knew defense was going to be an issue this year. It's the offense that we keep being told is going to show up that has us questioning the coaching ability. Besides the 3 and outs, the other consistent thing with this offense has been the coaching. Eventually, the coaching has to take responsibility for their product being ****.

 

[AdamJGray]

Agree. Look at what injuries have done to Georgia this year!!

Georgia, Florida, TCU of all struggled after key injuries. TCU competed with LSU and should have beat Tech on the road. They lose some key guys and now it doesn't even look like they will go to a bowl game. They might only win 1 more game all year.

And this is a team that a lot of people thought would finish in the top 3 of the Big 12. Is Gary Patterson now not a good fit for TCU?

 

[JUKEBOX]

I think JBH is right on mark.

Wasn't there a stat you posted a few months ago about coaches and breakout years?

 

[BBHMagic]

The OP was comparing Pinkel's first six years at MU to Rhoads at ISU. I was simply pointing out that Pinkel's 5th year at MU seems to be going better than Rhoad's fifth year at ISU. Can't really compare the sixth year since it hasn't happened yet. calm down. There's no need for you to stroke out.

And about the recuiting, many posters here would debate your assertion that it is getting better. And if it is getting better, it's still at or near the bottom of the Big 12, which doesn't bode well for winning for conference games.

And all I'm saying is people constantly bringing up year 5 is near pointless.


With regards to recruiting, I don't know how you could argue its not improving. The fact that underclassmen are playing over upperclassmen should be all the proof you need.

 

[BBHMagic]

Somehow, it seems that it shouldn't come down to one lineman making the difference between success and failure when an FBS team plays against a mediocre FCS team. ISU didn't beat UNI because ISU couldn't score more than 28 points.

No, we shouldn't have lost to UNI, but like I said, we always struggle in the first game. Farniok is our best offensive player and a future NFL player. When you lose that in a game you're struggling in, it could be a tipping point. If we lost our best offensive player two years ago when we played them, we would have lost, but we didn't and nobody cares about that game anymore.


We need to be better prepared when we start seasons so these things don't have to be tipping points.

 

[JUKEBOX]

Georgia, Florida, TCU of all struggled after key injuries. TCU competed with LSU and should have beat Tech on the road. They lose some key guys and now it doesn't even look like they will go to a bowl game. They might only win 1 more game all year.

And this is a team that a lot of people thought would finish in the top 3 of the Big 12. Is Gary Patterson now not a good fit for TCU?

Patterson has a pedigree.

What has Rhoads accomplished that indicates he is anything above a below average to average coach that can occasionally upset a team who overlooks us? Believe it or not, motivational speeches do little to affect the outcomes of games. Preparation is key.

 

[jbhtexas]

I think JBH is right on mark.

Wasn't there a stat you posted a few months ago about coaches and breakout years?

http://cyclonefanatic.com/forum/football/175925-team-young-8.html#post3593042

 

[AdamJGray]

Patterson has a pedigree.

What has Rhoads accomplished that indicates he is anything above a below average to average coach that can occasionally upset a team who overlooks us? Believe it or not, motivational speeches do little to affect the outcomes of games. Preparation is key.

I've enjoyed the conversation with fellow Cyclones today as I sit here and watch the NFL games, but this comment is absurd. Do you really feel that all Paul Rhoads offers as a coach is motivational speeches? And that he doesn't prepare?

 

[JUKEBOX]

I've enjoyed the conversation with fellow Cyclones today as I sit here and watch the NFL games, but this comment is absurd. Do you really feel that all Paul Rhoads offers as a coach is motivational speeches? And that he doesn't prepare?

After almost every conference game we play, I usually think the team we play against has a better gameplan and more fundamentally sound players.

 

[GMan]

Patterson has a pedigree.

What has Rhoads accomplished that indicates he is anything above a below average to average coach that can occasionally upset a team who overlooks us? Believe it or not, motivational speeches do little to affect the outcomes of games. Preparation is key.

Given that Rhoads has a better winning percentage at ISU than every coach except Earl Bruce since WW2, I would say Rhoads is an above average coach at least in terms of ISU.

 

[JUKEBOX]

Given that Rhoads has a better winning percentage at ISU than every coach except Earl Bruce since WW2, I would say Rhoads is an above average coach at least in terms of ISU.

This is not true. He has a worse winning percentage than Donnie freaking Duncan.

Edit:

Actually he is like tied with Duncan. After one more loss I think he will be worse. If the year ends like it has started, he will have a worse record than Criner.

 

[UNIGuy4Cy]

Patterson has a pedigree.

What has Rhoads accomplished that indicates he is anything above a below average to average coach that can occasionally upset a team who overlooks us? Believe it or not, motivational speeches do little to affect the outcomes of games. Preparation is key.

Ya comparing ISU to TCU is a slippery slope, they went to the Rose Bowl a few years ago, we have been to Memphis? And TCU has more turnover this year than anyone I know and they have more than 1 victory. You can argue this until you are blue in the face but this, as a team, is as bad as Chiziks second year.

 

[GMan]

This is not true. He has a worse winning percentage than Donnie freaking Duncan.

Technically, if you take yesterday's game into account, Donnie Duncan has a higher winning percentage by less than one tenth of a percentage point. Please note that Donnie Duncan inherited Earle Bruce's program, which had gone 24-11 the previous 3 years versus Paul Rhoads who inherited a program which had gone 9-27 the previous 3.