Who were the Refs that screwed up the free throw debacle at Kansas yrs back?

[majorcyfan]

Kansas scored on a rebound from the first free throw of a 2 shot foul for ISU. The Kansas basket as allowed cause rules didn't prevent the score, remembering rules changed to correct this. I am remembering Paul Janssen and maybe Tom O'Neill were 2 of the refs. Or as John Higgens involved?

Tom O'Neill has been the better of the three for ISU games as I recall. Janssen has been bad, really bad at times. Two yrs ago at Hilton, a fan in the seats right over where ISU and at that time, the refs went in at half, really unloaded on Janssen. So much so that Janssen called for the officer guarding him, to do something about the fan. The officer walked back out to the area by the teams water cooler, did an about face, and walked back to the locker room area , without saying or doing anything to the ISU fan. I suspect he knew why the fan was railing on Janssen, at least that was my reading of what I witnessed but couldn't hear the exchange .

 

[theshadow]

O'Neill and Janssen were involved. Higgins was not. Danny Hooker was the third.

 

[majorcyfan]

Correct, just looked at the phantom 3 on UTube and could clearly ID Janssen and Oneill

 

[aeroclone08]

Correct, just looked at the phantom 3 on UTube and could clearly ID Janssen and Oneill

Really!? Link please! I need to show people in Kansas that this actually happened.

 

[ISUCubswin]

And before your friends say "it was a 13 point game," make sure you let them know that game went into overtime

 

[aeroclone08]

And before your friends say "it was a 13 point game," make sure you let them know that game went into overtime

Of course. We need another video of Langford's foot 3" over the line on the tying shot.

 

[Cycsk]

O'Neill and Janssen were involved. Higgins was not. Danny Hooker was the third.

Maybe it is obvious to the rest of you, but I don't think anyone has explicitly acknowledged the irony of Janssen being a ref last night. That puts him in our two OT losses at KU.

 

[HoopsTournament]

Phantom Three at the Phog - YouTube

Announcers were also clueless. Stupid rule because ball should have been DEAD. ISU was not back on defense because they knew that there were two shots.

 

[cyclonestate]

Allowing a team team to rebound the first shot of a two-shot free throw (during a dead ball situation!) and score a 3-pointer, and then refuse to correct the error is the most ridiculous example of home cooking that I've ever seen in my many years of watching college basketball.

 

[Cycsk]

Phantom Three at the Phog - YouTube

Announcers were also clueless. Stupid rule because ball should have been DEAD. ISU was not back on defense because they knew that there were two shots.

Indeed, the announcers are clueless. They are just having fun talking about Homan being a shot-blocking machine and about how long the arms of the KU shooter are.

Here is what gets me: why aren't the coaches all over that while it is happening? Homan is looking around after he misses the first one because he knows something is wrong. Vroman and Homan seem like the ones who bring it to the attention of the refs. Seems like the coaches should have been on the court making a huge scene. Why else have all those grad assistants around? Have them watch the clock operator, foul counts, etc.

I've heard it explained before that they were following some rule, but I still don't understand. Did it have something to do with the fact that once play resumes after a mistake, they need a dead-ball to stop play? That doesn't make sense because the refs don't even seem to notice the mistake until Vroman brings it to their attention.

And was there something about not being able to take points off the board once they are posted? Or maybe it couldn't be done once play had resumed? So, if Morgan had called a timeout and gotten things cleared up before Homan's second free throw, could the KU points have been taken off the board?

 

[SoapyCy]

You're right. The coaches should have ran on the court to stop the play. It shouldn't be a penalty because it was a dead ball.

THANK YOU for posting this thread. My wife and I were talking last night about "that one game a few years back where we got screwed". We were there, sat in the KU student section with a friend who went to KU, and had pop dumped on us, confetti thrown at us (which sticks to the pop), and someone even tried to "trim" my wife's hair with a fingernail clipper. It brings back a lot of great memories down there and now we have an answer about last night! Unfortunately the video is blurry but I think you can see me in the student section near the left side (left as you watch the screen) next to the railing... There were two or three ISU fans across in the upper-deck and we kept waving and shouting to each other the whole game... If you're on here...WOOOOOOOO!!!

 

[cycfan1]

And KU fans boo the call. Every TV talking head calls their fans knowledgeable.

 

[MJ271]

What I think is the worst about this is the fact that the announcers talk about the call like the refs fixed it, BUT THEY DIDN'T. They still counted the three, but they gave Kansas a technical, which makes no sense

 

[Cycsk]

What I think is the worst about this is the fact that the announcers talk about the call like the refs fixed it, BUT THEY DIDN'T. They still counted the three, but they gave Kansas a technical, which makes no sense

I recall KU fans trying to justify the "fix" based on some rule (that has been changed since then). Can anybody recall how they do this?

 

[AllN4ISU]

They didnt give Kansas a technical they had Homan shoot his second free throw and since Kansas "scored"it was ISU ball out of bounds at the other end.

Yes it makes no sense

 

[Cycsk]

They didnt give Kansas a technical they had Homan shoot his second free throw and since Kansas "scored"it was ISU ball out of bounds at the other end.

Yes it makes no sense

There is something else related to some rule that I can't remember clearly. It is something like "you can't take points off the board" or "you can't take points off the board once play has resumed (meaning Homan's second free throw)."

Granted, it still doesn't quite make sense, but was there some goofy rule (or interpretation of a rule) that some might understand to legitimize what happened?

 

[bostrem00]

I feel like if LE was involved with that call, he would've pulled a Jackie Moon and taken his whole team off the court, and had the game called.....

 

[Cycsk]

I feel like if LE was involved with that call, he would've pulled a Jackie Moon and taken his whole team off the court, and had the game called.....

Really? I'm trying to think what would have been reasonable for Morgan to do at the moment. The legitimate score was 34-24. Does it make sense to make a protest that big? Seems like it should have been a bigger deal for Morgan, his assistant coaches, and grad assistants. But maybe not quite as big as you say.

As a manager my senior year in high school who kept stats, I would also watch the clock-keeper. I caught one guy managing the clock at the end of a game to give extra time to his home team because we were in the lead. After I called him out publicly on it and made it clear that lots of us were watching him, he actually flicked the switch early on the in-bounds pass and let time run out before the ball was even in play. Man, was he mad, but I did my job and kept my team from getting screwed.

 

[theshadow]

There is something else related to some rule that I can't remember clearly. It is something like "you can't take points off the board" or "you can't take points off the board once play has resumed (meaning Homan's second free throw)."

Granted, it still doesn't quite make sense, but was there some goofy rule (or interpretation of a rule) that some might understand to legitimize what happened?

Big 12: Refs erred on ISU free throw | KUsports.com

 

[Cycsk]

Big 12: Refs erred on ISU free throw | KUsports.com

Yes, that link is what I've seen before. Makes me wonder what would have happened later in the game if we had just taken a missed first of two free throws and run down and shot it.




NCAA officiating rules state failing to award a merited free throw is a correctable error (Rule 2, Section 10). The rule provides for the merited free throw to be administered on the next dead-ball situation. It does not permit the cancellation of a made basket that occurred prior to the next dead ball.
In this situation, the officials did correct the error after Kansas had scored, Big 12 coordinator of officials Dale Kelley said. Therefore, Giddens' three points were not taken off the scoreboard.
"We were very disappointed in the poor communication between the officials on this play," Big 12 commissioner Kevin Weiberg said. "The officials did subsequently administer the correctable-error rule in the proper manner, but this situation should not have occurred. We have taken action regarding the officials consistent with our conference officiating policies."