Will Wisconsin come after CJL?

[mitten1975]

I find it hard to believe that women's basketball doesn't do better especially at ISU. It has a good crowd following, lots of games, the same scholarship burden or less than men's basketball. Does television bring in that much revenue? I would think that just ticket sales would come close to paying for women's basketball.

 

[jmb]

So I'm guessing you'd shut down everything except football and men's basketball.

Well if one were to run academia as a business yes. That isn't probably the best plan, so I would wait until:
1-a donor or donors wanted to make this specific type of charitable gift
2-the cash flow sports provided the cash flow that could justify the expense of this single use facility.

The notion is in tough choices tough questions should be asked. While I knew someone would post a silly post like yours,it is important to note money isn't so abundant that capital investments with little roi can be made. This is the real world, and real decisions need to be made. Welcome.

 

[mred]

I find it hard to believe that women's basketball doesn't do better especially at ISU. It has a good crowd following, lots of games, the same scholarship burden or less than men's basketball. Does television bring in that much revenue? I would think that just ticket sales would come close to paying for women's basketball.

The number of WBB programs in the black can be counted on one hand. I think ISU WBB runs at a deficit of around 1.0 to 1.5 million, which is better than most schools in the Big 12. Salaries, travel expenses, and recruiting expenses really add up.

 

[Go2Guy]

The number of WBB programs in the black can be counted on one hand. I think ISU WBB runs at a deficit of around 1.0 to 1.5 million, which is better than most schools in the Big 12. Salaries, travel expenses, and recruiting expenses really add up.

Exactly correct.

So let's bring up a controversial topic; do WBB coaches + assistants need to get paid that much? I bet there's a huge line of credible (and successful) candidates willing to do the job for less salary.

 

[klamath632]

I stated an opinion. You confirmed the opinion. What was silly about the post?

Going a little further, let's talk about the business decisions. The athletic department's goal is to make money, but it is bound by regulation-- namely, Title IX. For every scholarship in a men's sport, there needs to be a certain number of scholarship's in women's sports. Therefore, you've got a requirement to invest in women's sports.

If you take for granted the notion that women's sports are sinkholes, then the best you can do is to minimize the loss. But you should never completely give up on making a profit. The situation in ISU volleyball is actually one of the best chances you have at ISU to make a return on the investment. ISU has a high-profile coach who has taken the program to a high level in a short amount of time. Fans are taking note and are investing themselves into the program. In order to continue the success, additional investment is needed to 1. retain the coach, and 2. get her the talent needed to compete for conference and national championships. With success on the court, additional revenue opportunities arise.

The alternative, of course, is to not invest in the program at all, watch your brand recognition circle the drain, and continue to lose money while receiving zero benefits from the program at all. Your choice.

 

[mred]

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In 11-12:
FB expenses: $14.1m; revenue: $29.8m; NET: $15.7m
MBB expenses: $4.4m; revenue: $7.9m; NET: $3.5m
WBB expenses: $2.8m; revenue: $0.85m; NET: ($1.95m)
Other sports expenses: $7.2m; revenue: $1.5m; NET: ($5.7m)

 

[mred]

I bet there's a huge line of credible (and successful) candidates willing to do the job for less salary.

I bet there isn't. Also, keep in mind that losing less money than you otherwise will can make it a wise investment, not to mention the indirect benefits of a successful program (more donations, more good press, etc)

 

[Go2Guy]

I bet there isn't.

So back to my original question, should collegiate WBB coaches and assistants get paid that much when the programs lose money?

 

[klamath632]

So back to my original question, should collegiate WBB coaches and assistants get paid that much when the programs lose money?

Sounds like your mind is made up already, so why even ask?

 

[Go2Guy]

Sounds like your mind is made up already, so why even ask?

Don't be so pretentious; I had this discussion with my bro last weekend and I was defending the salary pay for BF and Bluder. just looking for more discussion points....geeze

 

[mred]

So back to my original question, should collegiate WBB coaches and assistants get paid that much when the programs lose money?

I edited my post to answer that question right as you asked it again. The programs will lose money. The better programs will lose less (unless spending is out of control). The market dictates the salaries. You don't spend as much, you get a team like Missouri which has expenses virtually as high as ISU ($2.4m) but likely takes in far less revenue. The exact amount is hidden through the magic of accounting: Missouri's WBB and other non-revenue sports happen to have the exact same revenue as expenses in the report.

 

[Go2Guy]

The market dictates the salaries. You don't spend as much, you get a team like Missouri which has expenses virtually as high as ISU ($2.4m) but likely takes in far less revenue.

Very reasonable point! But regarding the market dictating salaries; it seems like a very narrow market. I'm not so sure a certain coach can have many prospective schools with exact matching offers....., but all they need is one.

 

[swarthmoreCY]

So back to my original question, should collegiate WBB coaches and assistants get paid that much when the programs lose money?

Perhaps if you gut the budget the product would still be good enough to lose less money, but how much less? I suppose you can only lose what you spend, but there are externalities too...Imo WBB is mainstream enough that the positive advertising and perception that comes with being a top-25 program makes it worth the loss mred posted. Same with VBB. Anecdotally speaking, it is a good way to get the young female demographic to ultimately become ISU MBB and FB fans.

 

[Go2Guy]

Perhaps if you gut the budget the product would still be good enough to lose less money, but how much less? .

Another way of asking is, if you square up the budget with less in coaching salaries, does the product still get results? Is there an abundance of good coaching candidates willing to take the job for less? I dunno; just asking an honest question, but my perception seems to think otherwise.

What if Iowa told Bluder her package and the assistants will be reduced to 80% of current. so she decides to leave; how many schools would be willing to set up and offer the same package - I seriously don't know; but I don't think it would be many.

 

[Go2Guy]

WBB expenses: $2.8m; revenue: $0.85m; NET: ($1.95m)

Thanks for the info. Yikes, if that was occasional every 3rd year, or so, maybe tolerable....but consistent over 10-years becomes a hemorrhage.

 

[mred]

What if Iowa told Bluder her package and the assistants will be reduced to 80% of current. so she decides to leave; how many schools would be willing to set up and offer the same package - I seriously don't know; but I don't think it would be many.

The market is there. The supply/demand curve would drive the salaries down if it weren't.

Indiana got Curt Miller from Bowling Green for $275K. That's a good coach for a relatively cheap salary. Indiana spent $2.7M on WBB last year but only brought in $124K. I'm not sure what they were paying their old coach, but she certainly wasn't worth it.

 

[mred]

Thanks for the info. Yikes, if that was occasional every 3rd year, or so, maybe tolerable....but consistent over 10-years becomes a hemorrhage.

All sports except MBB and FB lose money. Those sports subsidize the rest. That's how it is.

Most schools are much worse. Indiana has a perpetually crappy team but still spent $2.7 M (on $0.12M revenue). Texas somehow managed to lose $3.5 M on WBB.

 

[theshadow]

Minn, Ill, TX, Neb, Wisc, KSU, etc., play in great VB venues

You must have a different definition of "great".

The Pavilion (Minn, 1950), Coliseum (Neb, 1926), Fieldhouse (Wisc, 1930), and Ahearn (KSU, 1950) are old buildings that were sitting empty after other sports got newer digs.

 

[IcSyU]

Nebraska now has a retrofitted Devaney Center don't they?

 

[Cycsk]

Another thread hijacked. Interesting discussion, but it deserves its own thread, especially if you find yourself saying, "back to my original question," but it isn't the original question.

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