I'm starting to like the idea of Tulane as #12 for the conference

[RustShack]

Ah yes, the name calling has to start for no reason.

Answer this. Why in the hell would the B12 add any schools that would devalue/decrease TV revenue shares for existing members? There is no school besides ND and possibly BYU that adds at least $20M/yr of TV network value for the B12.

Just imagine if we still had 12 teams. ISU finishes 8-4 because we play the schedule we should have. The rest of the Big12 isn't just a bunch of good teams beating up on eachother and hurting eachother. We have a Big12 Championship and OKST gets into the NC game. We have 2 BCS Bowl teams this year. You really think the Big12 wants to keep hurting themselves by sticking with 10?

12 teams will be factored into the first tier contracts when that comes up in a few years if we are up to 12 by then, just like they would have been if we didn't only have 10 teams for the second tier ones. Its not impossible for our second tier to renegotiate with us if we get backup to 12, and it would likely be more regardless because they are just worth more and more every year.

And for the record I'm not saying Tulane is my #1 option, we just need 12 teams again. Obviously ND would be best case, but isn't happening. BYU would be nice, but that option has went out the door.

But for the sake of Tulane, why do you think that Iowa with 3 million people can support two major universities but Louisiana with 4.5 million(and a hell of a lot better athletes) can't?

 

[CrossCyed]

Just imagine if we still had 12 teams. ISU finishes 8-4 because we play the schedule we should have. The rest of the Big12 isn't just a bunch of good teams beating up on eachother and hurting eachother. We have a Big12 Championship and OKST gets into the NC game. We have 2 BCS Bowl teams this year. You really think the Big12 wants to keep hurting themselves by sticking with 10?

12 teams will be factored into the first tier contracts when that comes up in a few years if we are up to 12 by then, just like they would have been if we didn't only have 10 teams for the second tier ones. Its not impossible for our second tier to renegotiate with us if we get backup to 12, and it would likely be more regardless because they are just worth more and more every year.

And for the record I'm not saying Tulane is my #1 option, we just need 12 teams again. Obviously ND would be best case, but isn't happening. BYU would be nice, but that option has went out the door.

But for the sake of Tulane, why do you think that Iowa with 3 million people can support two major universities but Louisiana with 4.5 million(and a hell of a lot better athletes) can't?

Because no one cares about Tulane.

 

[RustShack]

Because no one cares about Tulane.

Now that they stopped caring about athletics and aren't apart of a major conference. Now that they are supposedly ready to invest in athletics again, who's to say they don't become good again? They have more history than we do in football. They obviously aren't going to become a legit team right away, but no one though ISU and Baylor would be on the ups either. But ISU fans should be the last ones to rule out the team known as the #2 school in the state.

And again, I'm not saying Tulane is who I want... I just want 12. But this thread does make some sense and make them intriguing.

 

[DistrictCyclone]

Your contradictions and lack of comprehension makes responding pointless, but since you are trying so hard...

One only needs part of a market (and not even a majority) to carry it. I'll assume you understand that, so it should not take you too many more posts to understand different teams with-in that market can gain several conferences access (carry) a market. To facilitate your comprehension of this concept, think of St. Louis . Both Illinois and MU have part of the market, and both share the market with pro sports only fans. Yet both carry it for their conferences. Hell, even the presence of SLU, a team followed less than MU, ILL, and pro sports, has the brought the St. Louis market into the A-10.

Another example to hep you: Houston and Dallas markets being claimed by both the SEC (A$M) and Big 12 (UT). Texas has a bigger part of the market by number of fans, yet A$M still gets the SEC the Texas markets.

Carry - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Carry and access are not synonymous. Do a search for "access" at the above link and tell me what you find. If your claim is that a program only needs part of a market to "carry" it, where do you draw the line? Michigan is the 5th most popular college team in NYC; does the Big Ten "carry" NYC? They're the 4th most popular team in LA; does the Big Ten get to "carry" LA, too? Even small schools like Creighton have quite a few alumni here in DC; are we "carried" by the MVC?

If you expect people to understand you, use a common language; preferably one that doesn't completely disregard Merriam and Webster. It's shocking that I need to explain this with something as academically pretentious as "Swarthmore" in your username. Instead of baselessly trying to define what carrying a market means, why don't you use some kind of objective measure (like the NY Times article I posted) that actually explains why realignment has gone down the way it has better than your arbitrary rules about market share?

Let's get back to the program/market in question: Tulane/NOLA. Using your understanding of market share, any conference that adds Tulane suddenly "carries" the NOLA market...even though Tulane fans are probably outnumbered 9 to 1 by LSU fans and could not care less. Do you think ESPN is anxious for the Big 12 to gobble up Tulane so that they can rake in revenue from ads targeted to the 14 people in NOLA that will be watching the Tulane/KU matchup instead of LSU? Of course not...because Tulane doesn't "carry" anything.

 

[DistrictCyclone]

I think what you are missing is that he is indicating that Tulane's market share would/could change. No different than saying if SLU started playing in the BE next year, wouldn't their market share change in StL? While the networks are smart enough to look at current market share, I would argue they are equally smart enough to look at potential market share. Who has greater potential market share, Cincy or Tulane? I would argue Tulane, as Cincy, has been in the BE, had time to build a BCS quality program, and still doesn't have market share. Tulane on the other hand is in a rabid football environment, with a new stadium on the horizon, a large market and quality opponents they might be able to build a larger market share that can compete with LSU. I believe the theory is to slowly bleed money to Tulane if it came in. So remember that might be attractive to B12 members so that they can slow the hit to their share of the pie, where Cincy would probably get a full share within 1 or 2 years.

Honestly there is risk involved in whatever the B12 decides to do, whether that be to stay at 10 or expand to 12, 14 or 16.

I don't think that's what he (or she) is indicating, but if so, it's a silly reason to add a team. I doubt that the Big 12's TV partners give a rat's *** about potential market share; they want to capitalize on what already exists. And even if they did, it's plausible that UCF/USF/E.Carolina/teams that are playing well and are in parts of the country that are rapidly expanding would be less-risky targets than Tulane.

 

[RustShack]

I completely understand that money is a big if not the biggest factor in most people eyes. But maybe the Big12 will also factor in recruiting. Factor in that we don't have the normal amount of bottom feeder teams(at least this year) that every conference has and needs. I think the vast majority of schools would be OK with adding another W to their record, which helps them make money in a different way.

 

[Tank]

I would rather have Tulane than UCF or Rutgers but I still like the idea of adding Louisville and Cinci. Those two additions gets us into Kentucky and Ohio and also Big 10 and SEC country and adds another great recruiting hot bed.

North:
ISU
KU
KSU
Louisville
Cinci
West Virginia

South:
Oklahoma
Okie State
Texas
Tech
TCU
Baylor

 

[im4cyclones]

Tulare is interesting and I appreciate the OP taking a different look at expansion. But I think it is too risky. As has been said before, what about adding South Fla and UCF? Leave Louisville out to get traveling partners. Not perfect but our move to 12 will be all about compromises.

 

[RustShack]

Personally I don't like that idea of a Florida school at all. How many of our Florida recruits would have chose South Florida over ISU? We are getting a lot of talent from Florida right now that the rest of the Big12 isn't.. and I want to keep it that way.

 

[CrossCyed]

I completely understand that money is a big if not the biggest factor in most people eyes. But maybe the Big12 will also factor in recruiting. Factor in that we don't have the normal amount of bottom feeder teams(at least this year) that every conference has and needs. I think the vast majority of schools would be OK with adding another W to their record, which helps them make money in a different way.

It's not just "big if not the biggest." It is undoubtedly the biggest and I really doubt that Iowa State wants to dilute the overall value of the TV package.

 

[cychhosis]

Take Tulane, but make them change their mascot from the Greenwave to....


The Tulane Highways!

 

[im4cyclones]

Personally I don't like that idea of a Florida school at all. How many of our Florida recruits would have chose South Florida over ISU? We are getting a lot of talent from Florida right now that the rest of the Big12 isn't.. and I want to keep it that way.

True. But what might we get if we can offer recruits a chance to play on front of their home fans? And what if we are on TV a little more down there? I'm not saying we would get the pick of the litter, but wonder if more exposure would offset more hands in the cookie jar?

Let's face it, the Texas schools are still going to hammer Texas recruiting so it only really opens up FL to the Kansas schools. And we already have relationships built up.

 

[cykadelic2]

Just imagine if we still had 12 teams. ISU finishes 8-4 because we play the schedule we should have. The rest of the Big12 isn't just a bunch of good teams beating up on eachother and hurting eachother. We have a Big12 Championship and OKST gets into the NC game. We have 2 BCS Bowl teams this year. You really think the Big12 wants to keep hurting themselves by sticking with 10?

The B12 would hurt themselves even more by adding schools not named ND and BYU and diluting existing TV revenue shares. The B12 isn't going to add a couple a schools just so ISU and teams like it can win a couple of more games and stop beating each other up. If expanding to 12 (with schools like Cincy, USF or Tulane) is the no-brainer you are suggesting, they would have done it by now.

 

[RustShack]

The B12 would hurt themselves even more by adding schools not named ND and BYU and diluting existing TV revenue shares. The B12 isn't going to add a couple a schools just so ISU and teams like it can win a couple of more games and stop beating each other up. If expanding to 12 (with schools like Cincy, USF or Tulane) is the no-brainer you are suggesting, they would have done it by now.

Or, since its about money they are waiting until we are closer to the first tier contract to be renewed. Since you know, Louisville is already telling recruits they will be apart of the Big12, seems like going to 12 is a no brainer.

 

[bellzisu]

Since this is about money.... I really have a feeling that team #12 might just be determined by whoever gets our tier 1 TV contact. If Espn or fox wants team x for contact rights, then i have a feeling that might be what happens. No reason to hide the driving force behind this all...... MONEY... MONEY.... MONEY

 

[RustShack]

Too bad we missed out on Pitt.

 

[bostrem00]

How about the Big 12 invites Eastern Washington? I love Roos Field...

 

[cykadelic2]

Or, since its about money they are waiting until we are closer to the first tier contract to be renewed. Since you know, Louisville is already telling recruits they will be apart of the Big12, seems like going to 12 is a no brainer.

If Louisville knows that ND or BYU are joining along with them, fine by me. Otherwise, they are making a mistake telling their recruits that.

 

[RedBlooded]

since when is louisville as good as in? I think I missed something.

 

[cykadelic2]

since when is louisville as good as in? I think I missed something.

A fan-related website recently reported that Louisville coaches was telling their FB recruits they would be playing in the B12.

Coaches tell recruits alot of things that stretch the truth so I would not necessarily take that report to mean Louisville to the B12 is a done deal.