I'd Rather Recruit DL than OL

[isucy86]

IMO a team can never recruit too many DL prospects. Keep the best on the DL and the kids who can't maintain their quickness when they bulk up can be moved to OL.

It seems to me the former staff never recruited enough DL prospects, especially at DT. Then to compound the problem we recruited OL prospects that might have been big, but ran a 5.3 forty.

 

[CrossCyed]

Line recruiting is one hell of a crap shoot.

 

[troyrew]

OLine Recruiting is the toughest

 

[kurimski]

What should the coaching staff be looking for in an Oline recruit? I know you obviously want somebody big and strong. How fast do you really want him to be? I wouldn't want somebody that is just big, fat, and slow. What should their typical size be, bench press, and speed be just out of curiousity?

 

[clonefan_80]

I'm no expert, obviously, but here's my opinion. I'd say minimums for a kid should be 6'3", 280lbs, runs his 40 under 5 seconds, benches 300, and squats 400. Obviously shear football skills and the love of the game outrank all of these and desire can overcome anyone of them.

 

[superfan]

What should the coaching staff be looking for in an Oline recruit? I know you obviously want somebody big and strong. How fast do you really want him to be? I wouldn't want somebody that is just big, fat, and slow. What should their typical size be, bench press, and speed be just out of curiousity?

Well, a prototypical NFL lineman is about 6'3" to 6'8", somewhere between 290-320 lbs. 4.9-5.2 40 yard dash. Depending on the system, what you want can vary. For a zone blocking system, you usually want smaller, quicker lineman. Probably between 30-40 reps (225 lbs) on the bench. For a HS recruit you'd obviously get something less developed.

For perspective:

Michael Brewster, OL, Orlando (OSU 2008 commit and Rivals 100 #8 overall)
Ht: 6-foot-6
Wt: 305 lbs
Forty: 5.1 secs
Bench reps: 26
Vertical: 20 inches
Shuttle: 4.63 secs

Tyron Smith, OL, Moreno Valley (USC 2008 commit and Rivals 100 #11 overall)
Ht: 6-foot-6
Wt: 264 lbs
Forty: 5.1 secs
Bench reps: 24
Vertical: 31 inches
Shuttle: 5.25 secs

Joe Thomas, OL, Cleveland (previously Wisconsin - combine results)
Ht: 6-foot-6
Wt: 313 lbs
Forty: 4.92 secs
Bench reps: 28
Vertical: 33 inches

 

[twojman]

I have always heard that DT is the toughest position to recruit for in football, I believe it. There are only so many guys that fit that mold, seems like a lot of other players can be transitioned to other positions, but you just can't move anyone to the DT position. Of course Rubin was able to do it, but I think he is a good athlete.

 

[bootcy]

I have always heard that DT is the toughest position to recruit for in football, I believe it. There are only so many guys that fit that mold, seems like a lot of other players can be transitioned to other positions, but you just can't move anyone to the DT position. Of course Rubin was able to do it, but I think he is a good athlete.

Rubin was originally a DT and was moved to the O-Line his second year of JUCO. DT was his natural spot.

 

[brianhos]

OLine Recruiting is the toughest

Agreed, in the oline, you also have to have a brain. Dline, you really don't have too many plays to learn.

 

[cygator 641]

I agree on recruiting DL and some of the best OL are converted TEs.

 

[bmuff]

I have always heard that DT is the toughest position to recruit for in football, I believe it. There are only so many guys that fit that mold, seems like a lot of other players can be transitioned to other positions, but you just can't move anyone to the DT position.

Yeah, you can. You can move DE's into the DT position. But you have to start with bigger DEs, not the 6'1 225lb kids that Mac had. A big strongside DE can move inside. Curvey started out playing DE. Bailey Johnson and Alburtis basically came in as DEs. James Reed came in as a LB/FB and ended up at DT.

 

[guitarchitect7]

For perspective:

Michael Brewster, OL, Orlando (OSU 2008 commit and Rivals 100 #8 overall)
Ht: 6-foot-6
Wt: 305 lbs
Forty: 5.1 secs
Bench reps: 26
Vertical: 20 inches
Shuttle: 4.63 secs

Tyron Smith, OL, Moreno Valley (USC 2008 commit and Rivals 100 #11 overall)
Ht: 6-foot-6
Wt: 264 lbs
Forty: 5.1 secs
Bench reps: 24
Vertical: 31 inches
Shuttle: 5.25 secs

Joe Thomas, OL, Cleveland (previously Wisconsin - combine results)
Ht: 6-foot-6
Wt: 313 lbs
Forty: 4.92 secs
Bench reps: 28
Vertical: 33 inches

I have never understood where the vertilce comes into play for OL guys. Someone want to explain this to me.

And on another note. Since I am not scout, how can you tell if the guy is going to ge a great OL or a good OL when watching him play. There is the obvious like pancakes and not getting run over, but what about the more detailed aspects?

 

[superfan]

I have never understood where the vertilce comes into play for OL guys. Someone want to explain this to me.

And on another note. Since I am not scout, how can you tell if the guy is going to ge a great OL or a good OL when watching him play. There is the obvious like pancakes and not getting run over, but what about the more detailed aspects?

I'm no expert, but I'd say the vertical, if anything, would be a measure of explosiveness. I just copy/pasted it because it was there. I'm sure it's more important for backs/receivers.

I'm no scout either, but from going over a couple NFL OL prospect analysis (particularly strengths and weaknesses of top picks) here's what I gleaned:

I'd say the first indicators on how an OL will perform can be found by looking at his legs in action. You want good bend at the knees, great foot quickness, good movement from side to side. Obviously, you want someone who stays low and is explosive and quick coming off the ball (which is why the three-cone drill or short shuttle can be more important than 40 time) How the player snaps his hips when contacting the defender and drops his center of gravity. A good OL should have good hand punch to shock the defender and gain control and have quick hands to keep control.

Here's where I'm getting my thoughts:

NFL.com - Prospect Profiles - Joe Thomas
NFL.com - Prospect Profiles - Levi Brown
NFL.com - Prospect Profiles - Ben Grubbs
NFL.com - Prospect Profiles - Aaron Brant

 

[jamesfnb]

The key to an o-lineman is strong, quick feet. Not necessarily a sprinter, but side to side, front and back, positioning for leverage. I don't pretend to be an o-line coach, but I did stay at a holiday inn last night..........

 

[ripvdub]

Being able to hold w/o getting caught is key to a GREAT OL. Everybody does it, its just wheather or not they throw the flag.
I played OL and DL in jr high and high school. I HATED the OL. DL was 10X more fun.
It seemed like you never get any credit for a good block, but if you make a great sack, everyone knows it, same as a bad block. Even if a lineman right next to you allows a sack or gets blown up, the whole OL gets blamed.

 

[besserheimerphat]

Big rep to superfan for the o-line scouting report. Quick feet and the ability to move any direction, head on a swivel, low hips, 90° at the knees, good initial punch and quick hands to maintain inside position. Pancake blocks are good, but anybody who's big enough can do that. And yes, the vertical jump is a measure of explosiveness. The most irrelevant measure of an o-lineman's playing ability is the 40 yard dash. A 10 or even 5 yard time would be more appropriate to the position. The 40 is more of a general indication of physical ability.

Ripvdub - obviously I was an o-lineman in JH and HS and I loved it. Now that I'm coaching a junior high team, I like to tell my kids that the difference between OL and DL is like a grenade and a sniper's bullet. When the enemy attacks, the DL just tries to get behind the line, disrupt the play and blow $hit up. The OL has a single target, and when the time is right he unleashes all his fury into a small point to decimate the enemy - one shot, one kill.

 

[darts180]

I just want to see a coherent, and more importantly, consistent recruiting plan. I want to be able to know what type of recruit that Gene is bringing in, without even having to look at the links on here.

Part of the problems that plagued the end of the Dan McCarney era was there was no set way of recruiting. The guys who recruited for Dan seemed to really have a problem with consistency of players, forget handing out all those scholarships hoping 25 would show up in the Fall. Whoever was in charge of that facet of the program, really let Dan, and the rest of the coaches down.

 

[herbiedoobie]

Everytime the subject of OL's come up, I have a mental image of Conneticut's huge but painfully slow linemen plowing our defense down the field, again and again and again....:no6xn:

 

[jdoggivjc]

I like to tell my kids that the difference between OL and DL is like a grenade and a sniper's bullet. When the enemy attacks, the DL just tries to get behind the line, disrupt the play and blow $hit up. The OL has a single target, and when the time is right he unleashes all his fury into a small point to decimate the enemy - one shot, one kill.

That's pretty much how I was going to summarize the difference between OL and DL. I think one of the biggest differences between the OL and DL is the amount of aggression needed to play the position. DLs need the mentality of "I'm gonna behead anything that gets between me and the ball." IMO, OLs don't need anywhere near that amount of aggression. I think OLs require a little bit more smarts than DLs. Instead of taking anybody out (i.e., the grenade), you have to know exactly which man to take out (i.e., the sniper). I think highly aggressive guys with size and speed can be coached to be great DLs, while intelligent guys with size and quickness can be coached to be great OLs.

In HS I was a much more successful OL than a DL. I'm not the kind of guy who has a lot of built-up, blood-thirsty aggression, and that really hurt me on the DL. However, on the OL, I was able to use that against my opponent to get him out of position to do my job.

 

[cyclonenum1]

We need big, strong, quick and athletic linemen on both sides of the ball.

LSU (especially under Saban) did a lot of position changing and changing kids from OL to DL was a favorite (and vice versa to a lesser extent). A good example of this was moving Marcus Spears from TE to DE. All Saban had to do to get the buy-in from Spears is show him the average salaries in the NFL for TE and DE.

Another thing he liked to do was change WR to DB. Saban moved Cory Webster from WR (where he was about 4th string) to CB and he became a very high draft pick.

I think you will find that Chizik as a defensive minded coach (like Saban) will always be looking at the talent pool (both in house and recruiting) to see if it makes good sense to move someone to the defensive side of the ball.

Defense will come first with Chizik.